Greek Treatment of Albanian immigrants

[KASTRIOTI]

What on earth does any cultural influence throughout the Balkan district have to do with people claiming names and history not to mention lands recognized through treaties and signed with the blood of the very Balkan nations that surround the area ???

Honestly how did you manage to combine these two ideas in one sentence ???
Well, it shows the psyche of the Greek people. That which makes them believe that they are the centre of the world, that every word in the world has derived somehow from Ancient Greek, that it is an open society teaching 'EU values' to the newcomers!!!!!!! The thruth is different however. The truth is that you have 1 miln foreigners (making up 10% of the population) yet here's what's written in the CIA factbook:

Ethnic groups:
Greek 98%, other 2%
note: the Greek Government states there are no ethnic divisions in Greece Check the site if you don't trust me:http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/gr.html
There are 300,000 Albanian immigrants who even after 10 years haven't been given the Greek passports ( When EU law dictates 5-7 years). Greece has a considerable muslim population, but only now (16 years after Albanian immigrants entered your country) did you decide to build a small mosque in the outskirts of Athens.

These are the things that you should worry about my friend, because it is exactly this psyche that makes you paranoid about even letting a neighbour use a name they want.

[Lakon]

You're obviously mixing the issues here and throwing anything you can except a legit argument on why I should hand over my culture and heritage to this newly formed country.

First, if there is such a belief you may blame it on every etymologic dictionary that indicate the Hellinic language instead of some invisible IE language, as the source of origin for a number of words and not the phyche.

Now as for CIA Factbook, the specific source gives the ammount of 'legit' populations or those that underwent naturalization if you prefer this term.

Its more than obvious that the population bearing visa are not included in the above or any other census. So immigrant on a visa constitutes no right what so ever to bear neither the Hellinic nationality nor to travel with the use of a Hellinic passport.
Of course there is no form of law that enforces the giving of nationality at any ammount of years. The 5-7 you mention is the commonly accepted ammount of years required in the majority of EU countries. But noone enforced this...

While you mention a mosque, (dispite the existnce of hundreds throughout Athens among other cities) what you fail to understand, obviously due to misinformation is that the population that wants a mosque, demands a central lot to be given to them under a form of grant.

The 'opposing' side (goverment) has suggested that they either accept the lot given to them in the specific area or on their own, raise the funds to buy it anywhere they choose.

So your argument is non-existant.

If they want their own religious temple, they are obliged to spend their own money and build it, just as I build my own religious temples with my own grants towards the church.


What i the Christians in Tirana, demand a central lot and that the goverment builds them a religious temple ???

There is noone that would neither justify nor support such a demand..

There is no law that obliges any goverment to build a temple for their minorities, religious freedom is one thing and funding the religion a totally different issue.

[airwings]

Since When Albanian Balozi the labour immigrants are minority ? You consider yourself as minority ?

[KASTRIOTI]

Since When Albanian Balozi the labour immigrants are minority ? You consider yourself as minority ?
Well let me enlighted you: These immigrants are there in Greece to stay and live forever (at least the majority). They want to have Greek passports, which means they have long-term plans to stay. Since their nationality is Albanian, this means they are a minority.....

Furthermore, do you know what Greeks in the south where when they were estabilished in Albania 60 - 70 years ago?!

[airwings]

Well let me enlighted you: These immigrants are there in Greece to stay and live forever (at least the majority). They want to have Greek passports, which means they have long-term plans to stay. Since their nationality is Albanian, this means they are a minority.....

Furthermore, do you know what Greeks in the south where when they were estabilished in Albania 60 - 70 years ago?!
Enlightened more :book:
And for the Greek passport issue policy and for the Bold text.Yes I want your lights!!!!

[Balozi]

While you mention a mosque, (dispite the existnce of hundreds throughout Athens among other cities) what you fail to understand, obviously due to misinformation is that the population that wants a mosque, demands a central lot to be given to them under a form of grant.

The 'opposing' side (goverment) has suggested that they either accept the lot given to them in the specific area or on their own, raise the funds to buy it anywhere they choose.

So your argument is non-existant.
actually YOUR argument is non existant. the greek state has the obligation to build this mosque. just like it pays orthodox priests a salary (i know this very well) and provides other facilities to the orthodox religion, it has the obligation to do so for all other religions as well. because practising religion is a HUMAN RIGHT. also, why is the lesson of "orthodox religion" taught IN SCHOOL? from what i know there is barely a reference to islam and other religions, and the lessons stress the "superiority" of orthodoxy over other religions

so as you can see, the greek state is far from impartial in the matter of religion


What i the Christians in Tirana, demand a central lot and that the goverment builds them a religious temple ???
there are churches in tirana and no one objects the building of them. well there are some people who object, but these are people who generally object the building of more worthless religious institutions with the people's money! (me being one of them)


Well let me enlighted you: These immigrants are there in Greece to stay and live forever (at least the majority). They want to have Greek passports, which means they have long-term plans to stay. Since their nationality is Albanian, this means they are a minority.....
look, we can't ask for minority status about the immigrants, at least not yet. but the same situation was some 60 years ago or so when greeks came in albania. still you are now considered a minority (which is on the edge of extinction, really). and not only we kept you and gave you citizenship and all, but what we get in return now is having our land called "north epirus" :doh:

anyway, i was talking with someone some days ago and he made a valid point, that while greece keeps the law of war with albania, they will never give greek citizenship

[KASTRIOTI]

Enlightened more :book:
And for the Greek passport issue policy and for the Bold text.Yes I want your lights!!!!
Well, aside those ethnic Greek families that actually had been inhabiting the place for quite some time, during the 1940's many Greek refugies went to Albania becuase of famine that struck Greece. Albanians took them in and had the Greeks work in their lands, and after a while they settled there. So, you see, they were also 'labour immigrants' weren't they?!!!!

And by the way, I ain't giving you my LIGHTS man. What's wrong with you?!!! :D :D :D

[airwings]

Balozi the laws of war between Greece and Albania fall since 1987 because of the policy of the Carolos Papoulias
Well, aside those ethnic Greek families that actually had been inhabiting the place for quite some time, during the 1940's many Greek refugies went to Albania becuase of famine that struck Greece. Albanians took them in and had the Greeks work in their lands, and after a while they settled there. So, you see, they were also 'labour immigrants' weren't they?!!!!
KASTRIOTI I want more informations as about this story.
So the Greeks after the end of the famine (where and when ?) decided to stay in Hodja administration and rejected the return in theirs home. And these are your LABOUR IMMIGRANTS that chosed to go in better places and betters lands.IN HODJA PARADICE.

Me douleueis re su? Are you play with me ? What crops you gonna tell me!!!! You WAS THE POOREST COUNTRY IN THE EUROPE. And the GREEKS decided to stay there for what ? Which international organization can confirm your claims?

[KASTRIOTI]

.....KASTRIOTI I want more informations as about this story. So the Greeks after the end of the famine (where and when ?) decided to stay in Hodja administration and rejected the return in theirs home. And these are your LABOUR IMMIGRANTS that chosed to go in better places and betters lands.IN HODJA PARADICE.

Me douleueis re su? Are you play with me ? What crops you gonna tell me!!!! You WAS THE POOREST COUNTRY IN THE EUROPE. And the GREEKS decided to stay there for what ? Which international organization can confirm your claims?
Oh my God!!! Why do you drag yourself in such labyrinths?! Albania was the poorest in EUROPE? It could have been.....However Albanians had property unitl 1956 (I bet you didn't know that, did you). And guess what, GREECE does not do well by EU standards, but still people work their lands.... it doesn't mean anything.....Just for your info. after Italy capitulated, Albania was a poor country, but still it fed thousands of Italian soldiers who were left behind.

So please do try to be more realistic...... :victory:

[Balozi]

Are you play with me ? What crops you gonna tell me!!!! You WAS THE POOREST COUNTRY IN THE EUROPE. And the GREEKS decided to stay there for what ? Which international organization can confirm your claims?
my grandfather could (if he was still alive) who personally filled the albanian trucks with grain for greece!!!

i suppose you havent seen some photos of post ww2 greece. THEY REMIND CONCENTRATION CAMPS. if the germans had another 10 years of you, we would now be speaking about the ancient greeks cause there wouldnt be any modern greeks left

greeks in albania consist of:
1) greeks that were there since a long time ago
2) greek communists persecuted from greece (the majority)
3) other greeks that may have been there for whatever reason (working or who knows what)

[airwings]

Actually dear Albanians I have visited Albania in 1986 (maybe some never that born in this year ) and I get it from a first hand what was your situtation
In the late 1980s, the average pay for an Albanian worker was about US$89 to US$104 monthly.If he has a job!!!!! Compare with the others countries and see what was the Hodja Paradice ?:bash:

and KASTRIOTI don't talk for the Greek economy.You know it very well and that's why is the reason that you want nationalities and passports!!!!:common051

Balozi, I know the WW II very better that can you imagine. And learn first what was the UNPRA as sghipognia KSILIA and then try to teach me History:type:

[Balozi]

airwings we are talking about post ww2 and no one is saying that hoxha's regime was a paradise. are you trying to piss people off? cause im gettin tired of your "comments"

after ww2 you had a strike of famine. that's a fact! we helped you. also a fact! so stop your damn trolling cause NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT 1980

damn i cant talk with you all you do is provoking me. we know that they worked with the axis but does it justify the killing of innocents? did women work with axis? did children work with axis? yea but i wouldnt expect anything better from you though

anyway, some albanians wish to stay in greece but most of them have in their mind the returning in albania, and as a matter of fact there are many albanians who have returned already :victory:. if we continue with this pace, there will be greek immigrants in albania in some years :D

[airwings]

Give me Balozi one source for this famine that hit the Greek population ?


anyway, some albanians wish to stay in greece but most of them have in their mind the returning in albania, and as a matter of fact there are many albanians who have returned already . if we continue with this pace, there will be greek immigrants in albania in some years
Yes sure like in 40s:common051

[albgene]

Actually dear Albanians I have visited Albania in 1986 (maybe some never that born in this year ) and I get it from a first hand what was your situtation
In the late 1980s, the average pay for an Albanian worker was about US$89 to US$104 monthly.If he has a job!!!!! Compare with the others countries and see what was the Hodja Paradice ?:bash:

Is this thread a softer version of "why Greeks hate Albanians"? We know the story of that great thread...

Dear Airwings, in the 80's up to 1991 the salaries of the average Albanian was a fraction of the numbers you provided...where in Albania did you stay, pardon my curiosity?

Now, this discussion is an interesting one for only one reason:
-1-The existence of a Greek minority in Albania.

Now Airwings, based on your logic, WHY WOULD A GREEK MINORITY EXIST IN ALBANIA WHEN YOU, YOURSELF AGREE THAT 'NO SANE" GREEK WOULD STAY IN "THE HOXHA PARADISE" WHEN GREECE IS JUST A FEW KM SOUTH OF THE BORDER???

[Balozi]

Give me Balozi one source for this famine that hit the Greek population ?
is bbc news good enough for you? it was just the first that i found. no need to look further though, it's all in front of your eyes if you want to open them and search:


1941 - Metaxas dies. Greece falls to Germany. More than 100,000 die in famine.
from bbc news (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/country_profiles/1014812.stm)

happy now?

[Balozi]

Now Airwings, based on your logic, WHY WOULD A GREEK MINORITY EXIST IN ALBANIA WHEN YOU, YOURSELF AGREE THAT 'NO SANE" GREEK WOULD STAY IN "THE HOXHA PARADISE" WHEN GREECE IS JUST A FEW KM SOUTH OF THE BORDER???
the greek minority in albania is consists primarily and majorly of the greek communists who found refuge in albania back in the 50's or so. but that's not our discussion so plz stay on topic

[airwings]

is bbc news good enough for you? it was just the first that i found. no need to look further though, it's all in front of your eyes if you want to open them and search:


from bbc news (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/country_profiles/1014812.stm)

happy now?
No Balozy , I want source for imigration in your Albanian "Paradise" and the reasons. You got that ? How many Greeks died during the occupation is known very well. And don't tell me for communists and the other fiction stories.

[airwings]

the greek minority in albania is consists primarily and majorly of the greek communists who found refuge in albania back in the 50's or so. but that's not our discussion so plz stay on topic
hahaha
I knew it$$$

[albgene]

hahaha
I knew it$$$

Answer my question Airwings..


Now Airwings, based on your logic, WHY WOULD A GREEK MINORITY EXIST IN ALBANIA WHEN YOU, YOURSELF AGREE THAT 'NO SANE" GREEK WOULD STAY IN "THE HOXHA PARADISE" WHEN GREECE IS JUST A FEW KM SOUTH OF THE BORDER???

You basically saying that there's no Greek minority in Albania...which I've been saying all along...you know that right???

[Balozi]

you wanted a source for the famine and i gave it to you. thats what you asked

and what do you mean, that communists didnt come in albania? and where did they go? dissapeared? LOL
you are a funny guy :D. well, just so that you learn, after the rest of greeks hunted them down like dogs or something, they went in albania, russia and other states. albania was then communist so they were happy to assist the "comrades". and thats how there is a greek minority in albania

[Torontezos]

"Hunted them down like dogs"?

It's called a civil war Balozi, there was no "hunt". The Communists lost the war and they fled the country to other communist-friendly nations.

[Lakon]

actually YOUR argument is non existant. the greek state has the obligation to build this mosque. just like it pays orthodox priests a salary (i know this very well) and provides other facilities to the orthodox religion, it has the obligation to do so for all other religions as well. because practising religion is a HUMAN RIGHT. also, why is the lesson of "orthodox religion" taught IN SCHOOL? from what i know there is barely a reference to islam and other religions, and the lessons stress the "superiority" of orthodoxy over other religions

Firstly, the Orthodox clergy isn't the only religion under goverment pay-role. All Muslim Mufties in Thrace are also under goverment pay-role which is the reason why we decide which Mufties are to be among those elected. (dispite the continuous attempts by the minority to bring the issue to Human Rights.
Their position is far from simple religious leaders, but they also are implicated in govermental issues such as the penal code, for the Mufty is also the judge..

As for the rest... Why don't you present the Human Rights laws that enforce the building of a religious temple by any goverment ???

You can't Balozi for NO such law/obligation exists..
Here you may read the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/a_ccpr.htm)
I'd like you to quote the exact article that mentions obligation to build religious temples...

As for religion taught in school. Again you're basing you're arguments on hearsay. There is a whole chapter dedicated to the faith of Islam as is there one for Hinduism, Buddhism ...etc
But its simple logic that in a country predominantly Christian Orthodox in belief, the specific religion will be taught predominantly.

Finally had your sources been a bit more accurate instead of intentionally misinforming you. They would have told you that the class of religion, not only is under no condition mandatory, but the students of different religion may be totally absent while its being taught.


there are churches in tirana and no one objects the building of them. well there are some people who object, but these are people who generally object the building of more worthless religious institutions with the people's money! (me being one of them)
I really don't see why you'd oppose to the building of a religious temple in Tirana allegedly being worried about the good people's money. While you claim exactly that in this issue.
Am I do believe that the Albanian money is of more value, did either people not work their ass off to obtain it ???
So why such a subjective opinion here.. would it be probably because its money spent on a mosque ...



look, we can't ask for minority status about the immigrants, at least not yet. but the same situation was some 60 years ago or so when greeks came in albania. still you are now considered a minority (which is on the edge of extinction, really). and not only we kept you and gave you citizenship and all, but what we get in return now is having our land called "north epirus" :doh:
Not now nor will you ever be able to. The law is crystal clear as is the oath I gave as an example. Why the specific oath ? Cause thats where we're picking up our imigration ideas from, the Hellinic system is modeled upon that of the US.
So its obvious that in order to do so, you'll go against your oath. In my book that indicates someone of low to non-existant shame that gives absolutely no value to his signature nor his word.

Someone has obviously been teaching you people crap about your history. Since while some Hellines did enter Albania the minority pre-existed. Which is the reason that on May 5th 1914 we saw the Treaty of Kerkyra, that was signed among others also by Albania and recognized Epirus its AUTONOMY...

So don't give me your Albanian propaganda, cause as I've proven, not only will I trash it but the result is harmfull for you...

WHY form an AUTONOMOUS Epiros IF there was no minority to begin with ?????

So much for that 60-70yr fairy-tale they've been feeding you...:doh:


anyway, i was talking with someone some days ago and he made a valid point, that while greece keeps the law of war with albania, they will never give greek citizenship
Obviously this is the idiot that filled your head with such trash..
Why didn't this halfwit, totally ignorant of his history inform you that the state of war was lifted in 1987 ????
But then again, if he did or had you done some objective reading, you would have known that this is nothing but propaganda trash and then what would you post....

We have a saying here:
Show me your friend and I'll tell you who you are...

Hope you get the inuendo..

[Lakon]

Just in case someone decides to reject its existance from 1914-1916. We have more than enough proof that they have their own provisional goverment, a flag even post stamps.

Postal stamps :
http://www.nationmaster.com/wikimir/images/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Stamp_Epirus_1914_5l_flag.jpg/200px-Stamp_Epirus_1914_5l_flag.jpg
http://www.tughranet.f2s.com/stamps/se98/e2.jpg
http://www.tughranet.f2s.com/stamps/se98/e4.jpg

This is the flag used during the revolt due to the previously signed 1913 'Protocol of Florence' that annexed them to Albania and demanded to be annexed to Hellas, which is what they actually accomplished in May of the same year with the 'Protocol of Kerkyra'.

http://www.hellas.org/nepirus/images/a_greeks.jpg


This is the flag they raised in Feb 17 1914 when Epirus was declared autonomous:

http://www.hellasarmy.gr/flag3.jpg


http://www.geocities.com/ellhnopsyxos/aytonomia.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/ellhnopsyxos/B.H.jpg


Here is a seal/stamp of the same year (note that it says AYTONOMOUS EPIROS):

http://www.geocities.com/ellhnopsyxos/aytonomh_hpeiros.jpg



So let forget about the civil-war immigration fairy-tale some taught you.
Its WRONG !!!!

[Balozi]

lakon, first of all dont call idiots people who you dont know. the state of war still exists, not even the greek officials deny it. it was lifted "de facto" but is still going "de jure". and in a bureaucratic country such as greece, de jure counts

secondly, where did i say that there wasnt greeks in albania before the commies? i said the majority of what is today, are those commies. and that's true

as for autonomous status? doesnt tell me anything. you had already annexed regions where greeks were minorities. if you had managed to annex south albania it would just be one more of those regions


We have a saying here:
Show me your friend and I'll tell you who you are...

Hope you get the inuendo..
and over here we have another it says dont try too many innuendos cause u might get lost ;)

dude. i dont know what they are telling you over there in greece. but janina was one of the four albanian vilayets. the fact that the powers were favouring greece at that period doesnt mean that you had a significant number of greeks there, lol. so tell me, how many greeks were there in south albania at that time? :D lol

anyway, i understand. you're too sad cause the greek minority in albania is becoming extinct. well, what can we do... that's life

[airwings]

Balozi you don't have a simple source as about the supposing Greek settlements in any period and any time. The Greek communist or Greek adopted childs that went in Albania were there until 1948.And the reason that left was the human conditions (no food, medical protection e.t.c.) The camps were in Elbasan,Skodra ,Koritsa and Prenes. My sourses
UNREsolution XVIII, 5th Ovtober that describe all these thinks. Compare with the Communist sourses (actually Hodja broke up with the Soviets in 50s) all bind the historical sources. Source of the UN was the UNRRA, a envoy committee that give information regarding The Chams camps but also and the Communists camps. US and British inteliggent!!!!

Now Balozi continue your trolly game by deleted my posts that you dont like them

[Lakon]

Well there is no other way to describe such ignorant manipulation of historic events that are very well documented.
If you're friend feels insulted, what can I say. I find the US State Department (http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3395.htm) far more credible that any propagandist..

"Greece restored diplomatic relations with Albania in 1971, but the Greek Government did not formally lift the state of war, declared during World War II, until 1987"

While you may choose to forget and intentionally ignore the events, some choose not to. Balozi, we know all about the minority and why they choose to leave their homes for a better future here, who can actually blame them after all they've been through ???

The repression of the minority's culture and language during the reign of King Zog with an escalation of these events in 1933-34 and the later events during Hoxha's reign where we saw, churches burned down Hellinic books banned, schools closed are very well recorded..

Finally, as for Jannena, having being given the rule does not indicate a major Alanians population in the region. It just indicates the well known fact that the Albanians were the Ottoman right hand throughout their rule..

I suggest you look into the Ottoman census of Epirus in 1455 and see exactly how many Albanian names were recorded.. You just might be suprised...

[Dardani]

wow one regin wanted autonomy. big deal. shkodra wanted to be it's own country. Mirdita also. half of albanian didn't feel loyalty to the state. it was a mentatlity embedded sicne the time of city-states.

[KASTRIOTI]

Well there is no other way to describe such ignorant manipulation of historic events that are very well documented.
If you're friend feels insulted, what can I say. I find the US State Department far more credible that any propagandist..

"Greece restored diplomatic relations with Albania in 1971, but the Greek Government did not formally lift the state of war, declared during World War II, until 1987"
Well, according to some sources that I myself consider reliable, I can accept that Greece has officially lifted the state of war with Albania in August 1987. However, what makes me, Baloz and many Albanians wonder is that since Greece managed to manipulate figures and documents regarding its budget deficit when reporting to the EU only 2 years ago, it makes you think twice as to the leaglity of that "parliamentary voting to lift State of War with Albania" back in 1987, when we know damn well why the state of war was kept so long after ww2: because Greece had back then, STILL has territorial claims on southern Albania.

The repression of the minority's culture and language during the reign of King Zog with an escalation of these events in 1933-34 and the later events during Hoxha's reign where we saw, churches burned down Hellinic books banned, schools closed are very well recorded..
In case you forgot, or don't know, Hoxha's regime did not do only that, but it f**ked up the lifes of 3.5 million Albanians!!!!!!!!So why would the Greek minority be treated differently when Albanian churches and Mosques were also burnt down, when Albanian liberal literature was burnt, private property nationalised etc etc?! It was communism BACK THEN, in case you failed to notice.......

[airwings]

Answer my question Airwings..
Which question ?

[airwings]

. However, what makes me, Baloz and many Albanians wonder is that since Greece managed to manipulate figures and documents regarding its budget deficit when reporting to the EU only 2 years ago, it makes you think twice as to the leaglity of that "parliamentary voting to lift State of War with Albania" back in 1987, when we know damn well why the state of war was kept so long after ww2: because Greece had back then, STILL has territorial claims on southern Albania.

Greece don't has any territorial claim to anyone.
This is nationalistic illysion in order to survive any kind of domestic National-ism.:tomato: It's bread to such kind of propaganda!!!

You spoke for the "managed to manipulate figures and documents". Now tell me why Greece didn't punish for this issue ? I am curious :? Albanian also open a relative thread in this forum.Search it.:)

[KASTRIOTI]

Greece don't has any territorial claim to anyone.
This is nationalistic illysion in order to survive any kind of domestic National-ism.:tomato: It's bread to such kind of propaganda!!!

You spoke for the "managed to manipulate figures and documents". Now tell me why Greece didn't punish for this issue ? I am curious :? Albanian also open a relative thread in this forum.Search it.:)
Well why don't You tell me, to ease my bother of searching for this thread?! I would be damned if it wasn't for some reason which justifies your country's nickname in EU: "EU's spoiled child!"

[Balozi]

"Greece restored diplomatic relations with Albania in 1971, but the Greek Government did not formally lift the state of war, declared during World War II, until 1987"
and im telling you that it's not lifted. it is just half done i think. there is something that you didnt do to finalize it. i think you should have done some voting at the parliament which you didnt do or something like that. anyway, IT'S NOT lifted. and you can bring me 532474373758932753 sources that say it is, but im telling you that it still goes de jure, believe it or not


The repression of the minority's culture and language during the reign of King Zog with an escalation of these events in 1933-34 and the later events during Hoxha's reign where we saw, churches burned down Hellinic books banned, schools closed are very well recorded..
dude you are a clown. and i mean it. C-L-O-W-N. why am i even bothering to discuss with you? greeks (being "comrades") during hoxha were living BETTER than any albanian and you are still complaining well GET A LIFE


Well why don't You tell me, to ease my bother of searching for this thread?! I would be damned if it wasn't for some reason which justifies your country's nickname in EU: "EU's spoiled child!"
im not sure but i think they had to pay a fine for that, or some other economic penalty...

anyway, i think that in order for greek-albanian relations to improve, the greek government must make life for albanian emigrants a bit easier. it only takes some good will

[Lakon]

Well, according to some sources that I myself consider reliable, I can accept that Greece has officially lifted the state of war with Albania in August 1987. However, what makes me, Baloz and many Albanians wonder is that since Greece managed to manipulate figures and documents regarding its budget deficit when reporting to the EU only 2 years ago, it makes you think twice as to the leaglity of that "parliamentary voting to lift State of War with Albania" back in 1987, when we know damn well why the state of war was kept so long after ww2: because Greece had back then, STILL has territorial claims on southern Albania.

You people not only have a huge inferiority complex but actually ENVY the accomplishments of Hellas. It becomes obvious since you've been throwing anything you can in order to score stupid little points in a debate you've lost from post one..

What is the relevence of this trash to our discussion ???

airwings already gave you an answer about the alleged manipulation, but then again. I honestly fail to see why this would be of any interest to Albania and Albanians. When did you and your country become part of the EU ???


I would like anything to support your claims of 'still' wanting the lands...

[Lakon]

and im telling you that it's not lifted. it is just half done i think. there is something that you didnt do to finalize it. i think you should have done some voting at the parliament which you didnt do or something like that. anyway, IT'S NOT lifted. and you can bring me 532474373758932753 sources that say it is, but im telling you that it still goes de jure, believe it or not


Now we MUST take balozi's word on it, the great shining source of knowledge that shines on our pittifull ignorance..
Who's the CLOWN now ???

Lets see if these two accurate sources can even start by agreeing on a single issue :

According to head court-jester balozi :


dude you are a clown. and i mean it. C-L-O-W-N. why am i even bothering to discuss with you? greeks (being "comrades") during hoxha were living BETTER than any albanian and you are still complaining well GET A LIFE




Then we have the other opinion....


In case you forgot, or don't know, Hoxha's regime did not do only that, but it f**ked up the lifes of 3.5 million Albanians!!!!!!!!So why would the Greek minority be treated differently when Albanian churches and Mosques were also burnt down, when Albanian liberal literature was burnt, private property nationalised etc etc?! It was communism BACK THEN, in case you failed to notice....


So what did really happen during the Hoxha rule. F**KED UP LIVES or PARADISE FOR THE COMMRADES ???:trampolin

[Balozi]

me and kastrioti arent saying different things. he is speaking about greek literature and orthodox churches (as if they were yours, anyway)

i am speaking about jobs and opportunities

well, if you thought you'd be kings, sorry to dissapoint you

but i dont understand why u make so much fuss now about the commies that you exiled by yourself. then u didnt want them now you love them. why?

greeks then got straight jobs in the cities when albanians had to work in villages and small towns first, and then if they were lucky they would go to a city. greeks also got state positions, which normally they shouldn't have cause they were not citizens

is there any albanian in greece that has a state position? it is a fact that greeks are not very fond of albanians, thats why we are having this sort of treatment. but i suppose things will go around some day

[Lakon]

me and kastrioti arent saying different things. he is speaking about greek literature and orthodox churches (as if they were yours, anyway)

Both you and he quoted my responce to your comment of the minority in Albania becomming extinct. Now why you'd turn to 'job' opportunities, is actually beyond me.

I do wonder though, if Hellinic literature does not belong to the Hellines (according to your rediculous comment) who does it belong to... Albanians maybe ??? :doh:


well, if you thought you'd be kings, sorry to dissapoint you

This quote actually indicates that you are actually talkig about what I was, dispite your pathetic attempt to avoid the issue.
We didn't believe we'd be Kings, personally, I cound't care less about the commies that I consider exile to have been no form of punishment for their treason, but a simple pat of the back.

My interest is about the undoubtably proven minority that did and does exist in the lands in question. The minority that your dear King Zog persecuted, prior to any commie attempts to rule the Balkans..
Thats who I'm talking about Balozi..

As for Kings, you should start looking in the mirror, thats who believed would be king when he illegally entered Hellas and since had a harsh meeting with reality has done everything he can to spread propaganda and his hatred against the people that eventually took him in.



greeks then got straight jobs in the cities when albanians had to work in villages and small towns first, and then if they were lucky they would go to a city. greeks also got state positions, which normally they shouldn't have cause they were not citizens

Forgive us for not being the commie regime you're used to balozi, where every commrade is a brother and equal citizen. Here in this democratic country, we have a little issue that actually plays a major role in searching for a job.

Its called education and previous employment or ability if you prefer.
What did you expect, that you'd ilegally come from Albania where you mended sheep (of course not to be considered an insult) and be placed as the head of one of the top companies in Hellas even though you can't comprehend the language nor have any previous knowledge on the issue ???

Sorry but thats only seen in Hollywood movies..


is there any albanian in greece that has a state position? it is a fact that greeks are not very fond of albanians, thats why we are having this sort of treatment. but i suppose things will go around some day

LOL !!!!!

State position.. what do you think, that we probably hand out state posistions to anyone ???
Half the Hellines are wishing for one and you'd believe that an immigrant on a 6 or 12 month visa, is eligible for such a position ???

Get real... exactly how many members of the Hellinic minority have state positions in Albania dear balozi..
Let me remind you that they are full citizens and not illegal immigrants granted a visa in order to 'record' their whereabouts.

[Balozi]

ok dude whatever. you just confirmed once more that you think of albanians as lower people than you, uneducated and stuff like that. well there are many albanians that are far more educated than you think and they do ordinary jobs. i remember some years ago about one former minister that was now a night guard in greece. thats just the way things work in greece though

anyway, you are a pathetic little person and i really wish you would just go away

[Lakon]

Don't put words in my mouth.

Of course there is a % that has an education but the majority has proven to not have it.
I know girls from Ukraine ( my favorite neighbors) that work here as table dancers when back home they were Doctors and teachers during communism..

Shit happens balozi and I'm not the one to change it.. The very same treatment is seen all over the globe when we take immigrants into account... Why did they leave their homes ? Obviously due to economic need. So dispite their probable education or lack of it, they are driven to do whatever job they find.

I remember employing Albanians that claimed to be good builders back in 97' and these people then explained that they had never worked brick before but only knew how to build rock. Rock is a technique we've abandoned for some 20-30yrs if not more, only seen in grafic little villages..

Such little events assist in forming an opinion.

But then again, I should have placed them in a state posistion despite the fact that they are NOT full citizens...

Instead of throwing your trash against me, why don't you answer my questions above...


PS: If your former minister was only worth working as a 'night guard', that should actually tell you a whole lot about the people that once ruled your country...

I suggest you start blaming them for your current situation instead of everyone else.. or even better, blame yourself for electing them..

[Balozi]

yes those ukrainian neighbours of yours, despite being doctors, are now table dancers. so you admitted yourself that qualified people just aren't good enough for greece cause you think you have some level or something that is higher than anyone else's


If your former minister was only worth working as a 'night guard', that should actually tell you a whole lot about the people that once ruled your country...

I suggest you start blaming them for your current situation instead of everyone else.. or even better, blame yourself for electing them..
:doh: who told you we elected them? O.o

[airwings]

Well why don't You tell me, to ease my bother of searching for this thread?! I would be damned if it wasn't for some reason which justifies your country's nickname in EU: "EU's spoiled child!"
Is not my job , is your work if you want to debate.But I ll give the name of the starter,Is the administrator!!!!
Tell me now who carry on this title ?

France (http://tammybruce.com/archives/2006/04/france_now_offi.php)
Cyprus (http://www.diplomaticobserver.com/news_read.asp?id=1130)
European Union (http://ejournal.eduprojects.net/philippines/index.php?action%5B%5D=IArticleShow::sho wArticle('15339'))

and which accused those for spoiling?

But of course USA, British (a lovely EU member) ,Turks e.t.c.

and why Greece carry on this title ?
But of course for the Skopja and Cyprus issue!!!:trampolin Yes why Greece hell for your rights? You are spoiling country as they said.


But what about the thread ? As labour immigrant you don't want to hear why Greek deny to give passport to anyone ? Of course I am not talking for the nationality.Because this is another issue even are relatives subjects

[Torontezos]

you should start looking in the mirror, thats who believed would be king when he illegally entered Hellas and since had a harsh meeting with reality has done everything he can to spread propaganda and his hatred against the people that eventually took him in.
Unless you have proof that Balozi entered Hellas illegally, I suggest you not post such insulting comments (considering how insulted you were with the SF label they gave you).

[Lakon]

Unless you have proof that Balozi entered Hellas illegally, I suggest you not post such insulting comments (considering how insulted you were with the SF label they gave you).

I'll take it into consideration.
But just a note..

The label is still being posted and dispite continuous complainst refused to be deleted..

[tsunami]

Why was Lakon banned?

Was it because he was Stormfront member?

[Amin]

Why was Lakon banned?

Was it because he was Stormfront member?


There are still around some SF members...:whistling

[WisdomSeeker]

Why was Lakon banned?

Was it because he was Stormfront member?

Yes.

[Balozi]

not really for that. it was some time after we discovered that that he was banned. lets say his presence here was not harmonic

but this is off topic

[RoboCop]

There are still around some SF members...:whistling

Well, who???:?

[Amin]

Well, who???:?

He will recognize himself when he reads this.;)

[Balozi]

ok this is stupid and off topic

[dias/zefs]

Greeks who subscribe to Nazism are sell outs. Next to the Turks the Nazi's our our nation's enemies

[tsunami]

Complete sell outs, however after reading Lakon's post in here but also taking into consideration that sf is one of the biggest forums on the net.

I believe the only reason he subscribed over there was to clarify some things about Hellas.

Something like an ambassador sent to one of the worst places in the world.

He seems like a smart guy, who has shut many mouths in here.

Too bad he was banned.




Amin, i take you it you believe its me?

I already have 2 reputation points with sf comments on them.

So, they must come either from you or from Balozi.

If you think you will get rid of me, by labelling me or reporting me, or whatever, you ve got it wrong, mate.

Also if you have any information about personal information about me, i give you the right to post them.

Go ahead.

[Amin]

Amin, i take you it you believe its me?

I already have 2 reputation points with sf comments on them.

So, they must come either from you or from Balozi.

If you think you will get rid of me, by labelling me or reporting me, or whatever, you ve got it wrong, mate.

Also if you have any information about personal information about me, i give you the right to post them.

Go ahead.


We are off topic and no, I didn't mean you. Don't try to read my mind. Not whole world goes around you, you know.;)
Also I didn't give you any reputation points, I don't press that button.

Anyway I feel sorry for that person, that's all I will say for now.

[WisdomSeeker]

It can not be possibly be Amin,since i know his views on the reputation system.:D

Trust me Tsunami,we have had this discussion before with Amin lol

[tsunami]

Considering the tension, and his opinion that am nationalist, it would be only fair to assume.

As much i would like to believe that the world indeed revolves around, am pretty sure it doesnt.

Anyway, i dont press that button either.

Only once to Balozi(negative), cause am sure he did the same.

And once to you WS(positive), cause am sure you were the one who did the same.

[Balozi]

uh, off topic