Macedonian and Bulgarian Army to intensify cooperation

[gjore]

Macedonian and Bulgarian Army to intensify cooperation

Skopje /15/09/ 13:35

Macedonia has chosen the right road to sooner NATO membership, and the Bulgarian Army will generously aid the Army of Republic of Macedonia (ARM) because "no friend is better than neighbor".

The Chief of Bulgarian Army, General Zlatan Stojkov, said this in Skopje on Friday, during his meeting with Chief of General Staff of ARM, Lieutenant General Miroslav Stojanovski.

Thanking for the massive support, Chief Stojanovski said that with the implementation of the Dynamic Plan for Transformation of ARM, it, as a small professional army, strives towards responding to challenges and tasks of peace missions abroad and the global war on terror.

On the meeting, experiences were exchanged from the area of military cooperation between the two armies, professional training and education of personnel, organizing joint maneuvers and previous experiences from the unit's participation in peace missions.

General Stojkov is leading a high military delegation on a two-day official visit to the Republic of Macedonia.

[Kula]

When I was in Macedonia last month I saw a huge column of Hummers being transported. They sure looked impressive.

Another interesting fact is that Macedonia spends 6% of it's GDP for the military ( which is a huge percentage compared to the rest of the world), while Bulgaria only 2.6%, but I guess with all the termoil there you need to mantain a well trained modern army.

[gjore]

really, i didn't know that. sure, the figure is big, but when you look at the world factbook it says that this is a 2001/02 estimate. Well, that's not so suprising considering it was wartime.

Where were you in Macedonia?

[Kula]

really, i didn't know that. sure, the figure is big, but when you look at the world factbook it says that this is a 2001/02 estimate. Well, that's not so suprising considering it was wartime.

Where were you in Macedonia?

Yeah I guess it's a wartime figure, no wonder it's so high having in mind that even the ammunition costs a whole lot of money.


Skopje and Ochrid mostly, I visit other places as well.

[gjore]

yeah, actually our army is transforming, conscription is no more and they are trying to make it in an 8000 strong professional army. Of course, in time of need (hope there never be such time) they can always call on the reserves.

About you, do you have friends or family here?

[Kula]

About you, do you have friends or family here?

Both ;)

[gjore]

i have family in blagoevgrad, but i have never visited them.:">

My grandparents from my mother's side were born in Gabrovo - the village, not the town- and i have family there and in Blagoevgrad.
Actually, we are very close, my uncle goes there all the time, i should go the next time.

[Kula]

Do they consider themselves ethnic Macedonians, I'm really interested in this because of this whole OMO Ilinden thing and people on the internet making a big deal about the oppressed minority in the Blagoevgrad district. The truth is I've never met anyone claiming to be ethnic Macedonian and I've been there a lot of times and have met quite a lot of people from this area.

I suspect these OMO guys are just like the ones behind gypsy organisations, accumulating huge money from human rights organisations, but you can never know.

My family is from Galichnik.

[gjore]

Actually, they do, believe it or not.
It's a really interesting story. When my greatgrandparents moved to Macedonia during WW2, a large part of the family stayed in Gabrovo and some of them eventually moved to Blagoevgrad.

Those who have moved to Blagoevgrad actually changed their surname - they added the suffiks -ski so it would sound more macedonian, even though -ov is Macedonian enough.:D

Anyway, they do think of them as pure macedonians but as far as i know they are not a part of OMO Ilinden.
As for those that stayed in Gabrovo, i don't know, but I'll ask my uncle who is in very good relations with them.

As for the rest of my family(those who moved to Macedonia), they also had to change their surname, but for different reasons. the old name (which i choose not to mention) is not very common is Vardar Macedonia and so they were easily recognisable. After WW2 they were though to be VM (Vanchomihajlovisti) by the communists. even though they weren't, they were persecuted and decided to change their surname with another so they wouldn't be so easily picked on.

About you, if you are from galicnik, that means that you are a Mijak. Do you know that they are the only of the 12 slav tribes which managed to keep their identity to the present day?

[Aneta]

So you are Macedonian or what?
I know that there is a lot of Bulgars who are saying that there is no Macedonians in Bulgaria but as I can see you come from Macedonia and that’s good I hoop that you well gat you’re right as nationality over there as much as I think that Bulgarian ignores can not help you but it does in the late years hope in future too that’s why Strasburg is here and if they want in Europe the minority rights must be respected

[gjore]

Aneta, if you are talking to Kula, he is a Bulgarian with roots in Galicnik.
If you are talking to me, I'm a Macedonian with roots in the Pirin.

[Kula]

Actually, they do, believe it or not.
It's a really interesting story. When my greatgrandparents moved to Macedonia during WW2, a large part of the family stayed in Gabrovo and some of them eventually moved to Blagoevgrad.

Those who have moved to Blagoevgrad actually changed their surname - they added the suffiks -ski so it would sound more macedonian, even though -ov is Macedonian enough.:D

Anyway, they do think of them as pure macedonians but as far as i know they are not a part of OMO Ilinden.
As for those that stayed in Gabrovo, i don't know, but I'll ask my uncle who is in very good relations with them.

As for the rest of my family(those who moved to Macedonia), they also had to change their surname, but for different reasons. the old name (which i choose not to mention) is not very common is Vardar Macedonia and so they were easily recognisable. After WW2 they were though to be VM (Vanchomihajlovisti) by the communists. even though they weren't, they were persecuted and decided to change their surname with another so they wouldn't be so easily picked on.

About you, if you are from galicnik, that means that you are a Mijak. Do you know that they are the only of the 12 slav tribes which managed to keep their identity to the present day?


No offence, but does were your family members in Blagoevgrad (some here call it Gorna Dzhumaia because they don't accept this name but that's another story) active communists? If they were it won't be that much of a surprise, but if they weren't it really surprises me.

Yeah, the communists were quite brutal here too, they murdered more than 10 000 people and sent many more to concentration camps.

Well my family originates from Galichnik they moved to Bulgaria probably 60 years ago. I knew people there were called Mijaks because of their strange dialect but didn't know that about them being of the 12 slav tribes.

[Kula]

So you are Macedonian or what?
I know that there is a lot of Bulgars who are saying that there is no Macedonians in Bulgaria but as I can see you come from Macedonia and that’s good I hoop that you well gat you’re right as nationality over there as much as I think that Bulgarian ignores can not help you but it does in the late years hope in future too that’s why Strasburg is here and if they want in Europe the minority rights must be respected

I can assure you everyone in this country has equal right regardless of ethnicity, race or religion. Bulgaria is said to be one of the most tolerant nations in the Balkans.

[gjore]

No, they weren't communists... Actually, if we go deeper into history they were supporters of the VMRO.

Also, my grandparents who moved in Macedonia during WW2 decided to stay after the war ended because the communists promised independence for Macedonia, but not because they supported them. Furthermore, my mother's uncle was put in jail without trial by the communists where he died from tuberculosis. The supposed reason? He made two holes in the eyes on a picture of Tito. Well, since he had two university degrees, i doubt he was that stupid. Actually he was imprisoned because he was a suspected VMRO supporter and anti-communist.

Gorna Dzumaja is the old name of Blagoevgrad, Blagoevgrad was a name given by the Bulgarian government.

About the mijaks, they were one of the 12 slav tribes that settled the territory of Macedonia...Mijaci, Brsjaci, Strumjani....etc

The Mijaks in an aroung Galicnik are the only who had managed to keep their name and if you are from Galicnik, there is high probability you are one too because it's a relatively homogenous environment. Anyway, ask your family, maybe they know more.

[Kula]

No, they weren't communists... Actually, if we go deeper into history they were supporters of the VMRO.

Also, my grandparents who moved in Macedonia during WW2 decided to stay after the war ended because the communists promised independence for Macedonia, but not because they supported them. Furthermore, my mother's uncle was put in jail without trial by the communists where he died from tuberculosis. The supposed reason? He made two holes in the eyes on a picture of Tito. Well, since he had two university degrees, i doubt he was that stupid. Actually he was imprisoned because he was a suspected VMRO supporter and anti-communist.

Gorna Dzumaja is the old name of Blagoevgrad, Blagoevgrad was a name given by the Bulgarian government.

About the mijaks, they were one of the 12 slav tribes that settled the territory of Macedonia...Mijaci, Brsjaci, Strumjani....etc

The Mijaks in an aroung Galicnik are the only who had managed to keep their name and if you are from Galicnik, there is high probability you are one too because it's a relatively homogenous environment. Anyway, ask your family, maybe they know more.


It was the communists who changed the names to ski and their agenda was to make a greater Macedonia not because they cared but because they wanted to help the communists in Greece who would have gladly given away their share of Macedonia. That's how the whole population in the Blagoevgrad district was signed in as Macedonians in the early 50s some 300 000 people which now gives way for speculations.

Blagoevgrad is one of the few names unchanged after 89, don't know why. Dimitar Blagoev was the founder of the Bulgarian communist party.

So the version they told me about the etymology of the word Mijak was utterly wrong.

[gjore]

here is a gallery of Galicnik:

http://www.gostivar.com/galicnik/galerija/?strana=0

and something for the world famous Galicka Svadba

http://www.gostivar.com/galicnik/svadba/

[gjore]

Kula, the communist era is gone and they still have the name.

What did they tell you about the name Mijak?

[Kula]

Kula, the communist era is gone and they still have the name.

What did they tell you about the name Mijak?

Yeah, I don't know why either. They just didn't change it.

They said it was because of their strange dialect and them saying mie, instead of nie. Now I realise it was bullshit:D

[gjore]

They said it was because of their strange dialect and them saying mie, instead of nie. Now I realise it was bullshit:D

LOL :D well, you must admit that the explanation is a little naive. the next time you go in macedonia, ask around, maybe you'll find some literature. Until then, check out www.kajgana.com/forum .there is a thread about them there. Obviously, as it is a forum and it's not written by professional historians and etymologists there is bound to be a lot of BS there. However, I'm sure you can find something useful.

P.S.- If you are a Mijak, you should be really proud. They were the great builders, zographs and craftmen of the ottoman era. Their regions in western Macedonia are beautiful and they have kept their traditions alive.

[Kula]

LOL :D well, you must admit that the explanation is a little naive. the next time you go in macedonia, ask around, maybe you'll find some literature. Until then, check out www.kajgana.com/forum .there is a thread about them there. Obviously, as it is a forum and it's not written by professional historians and etymologists there is bound to be a lot of BS there. However, I'm sure you can find something useful.

P.S.- If you are a Mijak, you should be really proud. They were the great builders, zographs and craftmen of the ottoman era. Their regions in western Macedonia are beautiful and they have kept their traditions alive.

Thanks for the info, I didn't have the chance to visit the village itself but I passed through the region.

[Aneta]

You can visit the village online too, those villages in the Miak region are one of the famous in Macedonia they have rich Slav History
http://www.tresonce.com.mk/Angliski/index.htm

[gjore]

Thanks for the info, I didn't have the chance to visit the village itself but I passed through the region.

well, i haven't been there either, but they say it's beautiful. you can see by the gallery in the link i posted. The Mijaks and their villages like Galicnik and Tresonce are held in high esteem here. Next time, you must visit it. i will too when i have the chance.

[gjore]

P.S. - Check out the link Aneta posted it's really full of information.

[gjore]

here is something from the site...there is much more there:

"The inhabitants of Tresonche village are speakers of the Miyak dialect from the Macedonian language, which represents a part of the western-macedonian dialect group.

That dialect is also spoken in the villages of Galichnik, Lazaropole, Selce, Rosoki, Osoj, Gari, Zirovnica, Sence, Skudrinje, Mogorche, Prisojnica, Janche, Bitushe, Velebrdo, Rostushe, and some other places with smaller changes, mostly in the phonetics."

[Kula]

Yeah I read the site, thanks again Aneta. Some really good info in there.

[Kula]

http://www.tresonce.com.mk/images/zname1.jpg

That's a pretty interesting flag, what does the crescent stand for, it's not mentioned in the article.

[Aneta]

Weary different meanings but the mostly they are saying that means jewel because a lot of them wore jewelers. Some are saying that that wedding flag is memory of mixing nations but nobody know for truth because is weary old actually the oldest flag that has been find in Macedonia today is in the museum of Skopje.

[Torontezos]

http://www.tresonce.com.mk/images/zname1.jpg

That's a pretty interesting flag, what does the crescent stand for, it's not mentioned in the article.

I would think it represents the muslim citizens living in the area.

Strange though that the village should choose a Greek inscription around the crucifix since they are not Greek...

[WisdomSeeker]

The crescent sumbol is older than the muslim one. Byzantines had flags with crescents on ,maybe it has do anything with the byzantine period?

(the crescent is older than the byzantines,im not saying they invented it)

[Kula]

I think there weren't any muslims there when it was first recorded to have been used.

Torontezos, I think that's the standard inscription in orthodox iconography.

[WisdomSeeker]

I think there weren't any muslims there when it was first recorded to have been used.

Torontezos, I think that's the standard inscription in orthodox iconography.


Its just the ''IHSOYC XRISTOC NIKA'' in cyrillic alphabet,nothing special really,as Kula has said a universal orthodox inscription,much commonly used on flags,from the byzantine times and onwards

[Alalzia]

The crescent was the symboll of Artemis (godess of hunt) , Artemis was the protector god of the city of Megara , Vyzas was king of Megara when he established the colony of Byzantion.... dunno if this says something or it is related somewhow....

[WisdomSeeker]

The crescent was the symboll of Artemis (godess of hunt) , Artemis was the protector god of the city of Megara , Vyzas was king of Megara when he established the colony of Byzantion.... dunno if this says something or it is related somewhow....


actually ,it had. There were many flags with the crescent on Byzantium in the pre-ottoman times. But it was not a greek sumbol entirely,as it was widely spread on the muslim world as well.

[Alalzia]

actually ,it had. There were many flags with the crescent on Byzantium in the pre-ottoman times. But it was not a greek sumbol entirely,as it was widely spread on the muslim world as well.

Byzas lived long before any muslim

To the OP , that is good news , what region needs is more cooperation

[Slavs]

So you are Macedonian or what?
I know that there is a lot of Bulgars who are saying that there is no Macedonians in Bulgaria but as I can see you come from Macedonia and that’s good I hoop that you well gat you’re right as nationality over there as much as I think that Bulgarian ignores can not help you but it does in the late years hope in future too that’s why Strasburg is here and if they want in Europe the minority rights must be respected

in the last counting 5000 thausend people declared themself as etnic macedonian
i thing that is less then people declared themselfs armenians