Contradictions in Quran

[WisdomSeeker]

well, a part of my post in the other thread contained these contradictions in quran and i thought these contradictions should merit a own thread.

Now,i would like to ask our muslim friends here,since they have stated that there are no contradictions in the holy book to answer these questions:

God words dont change

Theirs are good tidings in the life of the world and in the Hereafter - There is no changing the Words of Allah - that is the Supreme Triumph.(Yunus 10:64)

And recite that which hath been revealed unto thee of the Scripture of thy Lord. There is none who can change His words, and thou wilt find no refuge beside Him.(al-Kahf 18:27)

Lo! We, even We, reveal the Reminder, and lo! We verily are its Guardian (al-Hijr 15:9)

God's words change

And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth- they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not.(an-Nahl 16:101)

Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things ? (al-Baqarah 2:106)

Allah effaceth what He will, and establisheth (what He will), and with Him is the source of ordinance.(ar-Ra`d 13:39)

God's day is 1000 years

He directeth the ordinance from the heaven unto the earth; then it ascendeth unto Him in a Day, whereof the measure is a thousand years of that ye reckon.(as-Sajdah 32:5)

God's day is 50,000 years

(Whereby) the angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day whereof the span is fifty thousand years.(al-Ma`arij 70:4)

There is no Intercessor

Say: Unto Allah belongeth all intercession. His is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. And afterward unto Him ye will be brought back.(az-Zumar 39:44)

Allah it is Who created the heavens and the earth, and that which is between them, in six Days. Then He mounted the Throne. Ye have not, beside Him, a protecting friend or mediator {intercessor}. Will ye not then remember ?(as-Sajdah 32:4)

There is an Intercessor

Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then He established Himself upon the Throne, directing all things. There is no intercessor (with Him) save after His permission. That is Allah, your Lord, so worship Him. Oh, will ye not remind?(Yunus 10:3)

Few of Heaven's Inhabitants are Muslims

[al-Waqi`ah 56:11] Those are they who will be brought nigh [56:12] In gardens of delight; [56:13] A {goodly} number of people from those of old, [56:14] And a few {number} from those of later times.

Many of Heaven's Inhabitants are Muslims

[al-Waqi`ah 56:37] Lovers, friends, [56:38] For those on the right hand; [56:39] A (goodly) number from those of old, [56:40] And a (goodly) number from those of later times.

Salvation is for Jews, Christians, and Sabaeans

Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.(al-Ma'idah 5:69)

Salvation is only for muslims

And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender {Islam} (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.(Al-Imran 3:85)


Forgiveness Command

We created not the heavens and the earth and all that is between them save with truth, and lo! the Hour is surely coming. So forgive, (O Muhammad), with a gracious forgiveness.(al-Hijr 15:85)

Unforgiveness Command

O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.(at-Taubah 9:73)

Swear by the City

And by this land made safe {Mecca}(at-Tin 95:3)

Not Swear by the City

Nay, I swear by this city {Mecca}(al-Balad 90:1)


Qura'n according to the translation of M. M. Pickthall's Meaning of the Glorious Quran by the Islamic Computing Centre, London.



Plus:

.Who Was the First Muslim?

Muhammad [6:14, 163], Moses [7:143], some Egyptians [26:51], or Abraham [2:127-133, 3:67] or Adam, the first man who also received inspiration from Allah [2:37]?


Can Angels Cause the Death of People

The Qur'an attacks those who worship anyone besides God (e.g. angels or prophets) because those can neither create, nor give life, nor cause anyone to die. Yet, the Qur'an explicitly states that one angel or several angels are causing certain people to die [Sura 4:97, 16:28, 32, 32:11].


Allah, Adam, and the Angels


There are a great number of problems and inconsistencies between the several accounts of Adam's creation, Allah's command to prostrate before Adam, Satans refusal, etc.

How many days did Allah need to destroy the people of Aad

One day [54:19]
several days [41:16; 69:6,7]

What was man created from? (you remember my post on embryology Amin?;) )

A blood clot [96:1-2], water [21:30, 24:45, 25:54], "sounding" (i.e. burned) clay [15:26], dust [3:59, 30:20, 35:11], nothing [19:67] and this is then denied in 52:35, earth [11:61], a drop of thickened fluid [16:4, 75:37]

The origin of calamity?

Is the evil in our life from Satan [38:41], Ourselves [4:79], or Allah [4:78]?

Does Allah command to do evil?

No [7:28, 16:90].
Yes [17:16, ]
Two examples are also given, where Allah clearly commanded or permitted indecent actions [2:229-230, 2:187].

Are angels protectors?

"NO protector besides Allah" [2:107, 29:22]. But in Sura 41:31 the angels themselves say: "We are your protectors in this life and the Hereafter." And also in other suras is their role described as guarding [13:11, 50:17-18] and protecting [82:10].

That should be enouph for now. Still ''no contradictions on Qu'ran'' ?:roll:

[..Jovan..]

.Who Was the First Muslim?

Muhammad [6:14, 163], Moses [7:143], some Egyptians [26:51], or Abraham [2:127-133, 3:67] or Adam, the first man who also received inspiration from Allah [2:37]?
:

[6.14] Say: Shall I take a guardian besides Allah, the Originator of the heavens and the earth, and He feeds (others) and is not (Himself) fed. Say: I am commanded to be the first who submits himself, and you should not be of the polytheists.

26.51] Surely we hope that our Lord will forgive us our wrongs because we are the first of the believers.

6.163] No associate has He; and this am I commanded, and I am the first of those who submit.

[7.143] And when Musa came at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said: My Lord! show me (Thyself), so that I may look upon Thee. He said: You cannot (bear to) see Me but look at the mountain, if it remains firm in its place, then will you see Me; but when his Lord manifested His glory to the mountain He made it crumble and Musa fell down in a swoon; then when he recovered, he said: Glory be to Thee, I turn to Thee, and I am the first of the believers.


[2.127] And when Ibrahim and Ismail raised the foundations of the House: Our Lord! accept from us; surely Thou art the Hearing, the Knowing:
[2.128] Our Lord! and make us both submissive to Thee and (raise) from our offspring a nation submitting to Thee, and show us our ways of devotion and turn to us (mercifully), surely Thou art the Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.
[2.129] Our Lord! and raise up in them an Apostle from among them who shall recite to them Thy communications and teach them the Book and the wisdom, and purify them; surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.
[2.130] And who forsakes the religion of Ibrahim but he who makes himself a fool, and most certainly We chose him in this world, and in the hereafter he is most surely among the righteous.
[2.131] When his Lord said to him, Be a Muslim, he said: I submit myself to the Lord of the worlds.
[2.132] And the same did Ibrahim enjoin on his sons and (so did) Yaqoub. O my sons! surely Allah has chosen for you (this) faith, therefore die not unless you are Muslims.
[2.133] Nay! were you witnesses when death visited Yaqoub, when he said to his sons: What will you serve after me? They said: We will serve your God and the God of your fathers, Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq, one God only, and to Him do we submit.

[3.67] Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists.

[2.37] Then Adam received (some) words from his Lord, so He turned to him mercifully; surely He is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.

It mostly says they served the Lord. Only for Ibrahim it said he was Muslim, as all prophets in Islam are Muslim. So i don't see much point in caring who was the first Muslim as, imporant thing is they are all Muslim and it isn't much of a contradictory.

[Amin]

Are angels protectors?

"NO protector besides Allah" [2:107, 29:22]. But in Sura 41:31 the angels themselves say: "We are your protectors in this life and the Hereafter." And also in other suras is their role described as guarding [13:11, 50:17-18] and protecting [82:10]."

Wrong.
Same reply as to this claim (The angels execute God's commands)
In 32:11 we are told that for each individual there is an angel placed in charge of when the appointed death time comes.

"Say, 'You will be put to death by the angel in whose charge you are placed, then to your Lord you will be returned."

However, when we read 47:27, we note that it speaks about the disbelievers in plural. This is indicated by the word 'them' in the verse.

"How will it be for them when the angels put them to death? They will beat them on their faces and their rear ends."

Since verse 47:27 speaks of the disbelievers in plural, thus the word 'angels' is used in plural.

Finally, in 39:42, we are told that it is God who takes our souls.

"GOD puts the souls to death when the end of their life comes …………. "

To demonstrate that the author is presenting pathetic arguments just to conjure up any contradiction, let us consider the following example of the following two statements:

'In the beginning of the World War the German forces invaded Poland."

'In the beginning of the World War Hitler invaded Poland."

Can we say that there is a contradiction between these two statements? Obviously not, for although it is obvious that Hitler did not go personally with a gun and invade Poland, it is understood that the German forces were acting upon Hitler's commands when invading Poland. Consequently, it is correct to say both sentences without having any contradictions.

Similarly, and although it is the angels who are in charge of putting people to death, yet they are acting upon the commands of Almighty God, and in that sense our lives are terminated in accordance with God's will.


Whether you read the Quran or the Bible, you will know that the angels are commissioned by God to execute various matters for mankind, they do nothing of their own, they only carry out God's commands. This petty claim is indeed quite futile! We are told repeatedly in the Quran that the angels are commissioned by God to assist and protect the believers. Whatever work they are doing for man, they are doing in accordance with God's will ………

To question whether they are the protectors or God is thus quite futile.


Salvation is for Jews, Christians, and Sabaeans

Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.(al-Ma'idah 5:69)

Salvation is only for muslims

And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender {Islam} (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.(Al-Imran 3:85)"

Wrong.
There is clear distinction made in these verses between believing Christians from idol worshippers.

When we read 2:69 and also 5:69 we see that only the Christians who believe in God are saved. Here, it must be stressed that belief in God means very clearly belief in the ONE God who is not a third of a trinity and who is not Jesus Christ. Therefore, whoever believes that Jesus is God in the flesh does not really believe in the real God who created the heavens and the earth, and who incidentally created Jesus as well. Whoever believes that God is a Tri figure-head, as per the trinity, does not believe in the ONE God either.

This is exactly what 5:72-73 states,

"Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah himself said, "O Children of Israel, you shall worship GOD; my Lord and your Lord." Anyone who sets up any idol beside GOD, GOD has forbidden Paradise for him, and his destiny is Hell. The wicked have no helpers.

Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is a third of a trinity. There is no god except the one god. Unless they refrain from saying this, those who disbelieve among them will incur a painful retribution."

According the Quran God is ONE not three in one. Jesus is the messenger of God and not His son. Therefore those among the Christians who worship God ALONE and are certain that He ALONE is the true God will be in heaven.

We are asserted in the Bible, as well as the Quran that God Alone is the true God:

"And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent." (John 17:3)

These words of Jesus make a very clear distinction between God, the ONLY TRUE GOD, and between himself, plus the fact that he was sent by God.

We also read the words of Jesus that confirm that it is written that we should all worship God ALONE:

"You shall worship the Lord your God, and HIM ALONE you shall serve" Luke 4:8

Now let us read the second verse quoted by the author:

"Anyone who accepts other than Submission as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter, he will be with the losers." 3:85

Submission to Almighty God and obeying His Law is the teaching of all Scripture and not only the Quran. The Old Testament, New Testament, and the Quran all confirm this truth. Those who have reduced Submission to be the religion of the Quran only have not grasped the message of truth from God Almighty.

[Amin]

What was man created from? (you remember my post on embryology Amin? )

A blood clot [96:1-2], water [21:30, 24:45, 25:54], "sounding" (i.e. burned) clay [15:26], dust [3:59, 30:20, 35:11], nothing [19:67] and this is then denied in 52:35, earth [11:61], a drop of thickened fluid [16:4, 75:37]

The origin of calamity?

Is the evil in our life from Satan [38:41], Ourselves [4:79], or Allah [4:78]?"


Wrong.
Claim based on poor translation and insufficient scientific knowledge.

First of all verses 96:1-2 do not say 'blood clot' !!! The correct translation of these two verses is:

"Read, in the name of your Lord, who created. He created man from a 'Alaq' (that which clings)." 96:1-2

The word 'Alaq' literally translates as (that which clings). This highly accurate scientific description, describes the fertilized egg as it clings to the wall of the mother's womb. Obviously, the author of the false claim has been reading an inaccurate translation of the Quran.

Now let us read the other contested verses:

21:30

"Do the unbelievers not realize that the heaven and the earth used to be one solid mass that we exploded into

existence? And from water we made all living things. Would they believe?"

Current scientific knowledge confirms the dual meaning of this verse:

1- The history of life on earth confirms that all life originated from water, then crept unto land, later birds were created then mammals and finally man. Therefore the phrase And from water we made all living things is accurate in that respect, and it confirms that all life originated from water.

2- When the chemical composition of any living organism (including the human body) is analysed it is found that it is formed mainly of water (at least 80% or more). This again confirms the accuracy of the phrase And from water we made all living things. In other words all living things are largely composed of water.

It is indeed interesting, and along the same lines, to note that it was found that all liquids in our bodies (tears, saliva, blood, urine, perspiration......etc) contain the same percentage of salt as is found in the oceans.

Next, we move on to the verses that state that man was created from clay, mud, or dust. Since dust and clay are the same thing (dust is dry mud) then they can be addressed together.

Once again, the history of life on earth confirms that at the early stages of the development of earth, and before life was formed, the earth was still very hot, too hot for water to exist in a liquid form. Gradually, and when the earth cooled sufficiently, the water that condensed and formed the seas and oceans mixed with the dirt to form mud. Out of the moulding mud was born the simplest living organisms, in the shape of bacteria and single cell organisms. From these early forms of living organisms originated higher and more complex forms culminating in the creation of man from the same origin, which is mud.

This scientific theory is confirmed in the Quran:

"We created the human being from aged mud, like the potter's clay." 15:26

Also 3:59, 30:20, 35:11

But this is not all, in another verse an amazing scientific information is given that was only to be revealed at least a thousand years after the revelation of the Quran. This is found in the following verse;

"We have created man from a 'Sulalah' (quintessence) of clay" 23:12

The word 'quintessence' means a sample that is a representation of the whole.

Today, when human tissue is analysed, it is found to contain exactly the same eighteen most abundant elements in the earth's crust. These are:

Oxygen, Silicon, Aluminum, Iron, Calcium, Sodium, Potassium, Magnesium, Hydrogen, Chlorofine, Iodine, Manganese, Phosphorous, Lead, copper, silver, Carbon, and Zinc.

For that, the human being is indeed created from earth.........

Next we move to 19:67 which says:

"Did the human being forget that we created him already, and he was nothing?"

On closer inspection we note that this verse does not say that we were created from nothing (as the author of the claim would interpret), the verse says that before we were created we were nothing. There is a big difference between saying,

'we were created from nothing'

and between ' before we were created , we were nothing'

Finally, we are told in the Quran that the human being is created from a drop of fluid [16:4, 75:37]

"He created the human from a tiny drop....... " 16:4

"Does the human being think that he will go to nothing? Was he not a drop of ejected semen? Then He (God) created an embryo out of it! He made it into male or female! Is He then unable to revive the dead?" 75:36-40

These verses describe the initial stage of the formation of the embryo, and the fertilization of the female egg by the male sperm. Once again, this is in line with scientific knowledge.


Yes I remember well your post on embryology. And try to refute non-Muslim scientists which I mentioned in "religion & science" which were more qualified than you.;)


and as you can see, NO CONTRADICTIONS, sorry to disappoint you.
I'll come back to the rest..

[WisdomSeeker]

ehi guys,one at a time please:P



It mostly says they served the Lord. Only for Ibrahim it said he was Muslim, as all prophets in Islam are Muslim. So i don't see much point in caring who was the first Muslim as, imporant thing is they are all Muslim and it isn't much of a contradictory

Jovan, according to muslims there is only one god and Mohammed is His Prophet.

so under this perspective,your religions perpsective,those mentioned are ALL MUSLIMS,as you have said.

Who was the first? can you answer that?

@ Amin.

Your explanation of life genesis is wrong. Or ,to be more accurate, half true. It is true that life comes out from water,but im not talking about human evolution here,but rather EMBRYOLOGY! A human organism is so much complex that you cannot claim to be out of water,if you go into details. We are not talking about organism's consistency,we are talking about EMBRYOLOGY!
And water has nothing to do with the semination of the human egg,OR to say better,it is not the first factor.

[..Jovan..]

ehi guys,one at a time please:P




Jovan, according to muslims there is only one god and Mohammed is His Prophet.

so under this perspective,your religions perpsective,those mentioned are ALL MUSLIMS,as you have said.

Who was the first? can you answer that?
Yes Allah is the only God and Muhammad Is His messenger. He is the most important messenger because he revealed to the world Islam under the permission of Allah but there are other prophets of Islam. For me i am not sure who was the first Muslim nor do i think that it matters as long as the message of Islam has been told.

[Amin]

Who was the first? can you answer that?

I can, if you allow me.:D

This is claim buy this anti-islamic website:


Muhammad was the first to bow down to Allah (i.e. the first Muslim) (sura 6:14,163; 39:12). Yet these passages forget that Abraham, his sons and Jacob were former Muslims (sura 2:132) as were all the earlier prophets (sura 28:52-53), and Jesus' disciples (3:52).


Wrong again.
The Quran speaks of every messenger as the first believer from among his own people, and the first among them to submit to Almighty God (be a Muslim).

The Quran refers to every messenger as the first believer among his people. This is quite logical since the messenger is the first to receive the message. Muhammad is spoken of as the first Muslim/Believer among his people, since the revelation came to him before all others.

When we read the story of Moses in Sura 7, we read how he refered to himself as the first of the believers. Obviously Moses did not mean that he is the first believer of all time, but what he meant is that he was the first to believe from among his own people:

"When Moses came at our appointed time, and his Lord spoke with him, he said, "My Lord, let me look and see You." He said, "You cannot see Me. Look at that mountain; if it stays in its place, then you can see Me." Then, his Lord manifested Himself to the mountain, and this caused it to crumble. Moses fell unconscious. When he came to, he said, "Be You glorified. I repent to You, and I am the first of the believers." 7:143

[WisdomSeeker]

Hehe,you have failed to understand my point made Jovan.

I am not interested on who the first muslim has been,i am only interested on proving that Qu'ran has quite a few logical errors and contradictions within itself,in comparison to Amin who states otherwise.

See the difference?;)

Your uncertainty on this ''contradiction'' is enouph prove for me.

What about the rest?

And,be sure,there are many more of them,but it would be a far too big dispute.. when Amin explains those that i have posted,we can talk about more of them.

And i will answer his questions about the contradictions in the bible too,which ,in difference with him, i AKNOWLEDGE they exist. But not in everyone of those he posted;)

[WisdomSeeker]

The Quran refers to every messenger as the first believer among his people. This is quite logical since the messenger is the first to receive the message. Muhammad is spoken of as the first Muslim/Believer among his people, since the revelation came to him before all others.

Really? So Abraham and Moses were NON JEWS Of different ethnic stock that is? Other than Jewish stock???And if they were NOT the first believers,then why it is stated so in Qu'ran?

You are contradicting yourself now. Your explanation is flawed,try again

[Amin]

oops I forgot this one


The origin of calamity? Is the evil in our life from Satan [38:41], Ourselves [4:79], or Allah [4:78]?

Wroooong.
Misrepresentation and poor understanding of the above verses.

The first of the three verses refered to by the author is as follows:

38:41

Remember our servant Job: he called upon his Lord, "The devil has afflicted me with hardship and pain."

The author uses this example of Job, to say that calamity comes from Satan.

It is true that in this verse Job implored God saying that the devil has inflicted him with pain and hardship, however, by reading other verses in the Quran, we realise that Job was mistaken. The hardship and pain that Job was suffering were not inflicted on him by the devil, they were a mere test that God wished to put him through.

We are given ample evidence in the Quran that God tests all believers. God also tests the messengers and prophets. In verse 34 of the same Sura (38) we are told of God testing Solomon:

38:34

"We thus put Solomon to the test; we blessed him with vast material wealth, but he steadfastly submitted."

Solomon and Job represent both ends of the testing spectrum. We are put to the test through wealth, health, or lack of them, to see if we worship God alone under all circumstances.

When God was satisfied that Job was a faithful persevering believer, which is indicated in verse 44:

"We found him steadfast. What a good servant! He was a submitter"

God thus rewarded him by doubling his family:

"We restored his family for him; twice as many. Such is our mercy; a reminder for those who possess intelligence." 38:43

Further evidence that the hardship that was suffered by Job was not from the devil (as Job thought) is found in the following verses:

16:98-100

"When you read the Quran, you shall seek refuge in GOD from Satan the rejected. He has no power over those who believe and trust in their Lord. His power is limited to those who choose him as their master, those who choose him as their god."

The devil has no power over the ones who believe and trust in God. Furthermore, the devil cannot inflict sufferring nor evil on any human being. All that the devil is able to do is to intice man, and invite him to commit sin, then it is up to every man to reject the devil or follow his inticing. Once again this is made evident in the following verse:

14:22

"And the devil will say, after the judgment had been issued, "GOD has promised you the truthful promise, and I promised you, but I broke my promise. I had no power over you; I simply invited you, and you accepted my invitation. Therefore, do not blame me, and blame only yourselves. My complaining cannot help you, nor can your complaining help me. I have rejected your idolizing of me. The transgressors have incurred a painful retribution."

The author then quotes 4:78 to say that calamity comes from God! Well let us read 4:78

4:78

"When something good happens to them, they say, "This is from GOD," and when something bad afflicts them, they blame you. Say, "Everything comes from GOD." Why do these people misunderstand almost everything?

The words "Everything comes from GOD" mean that through God's will everything is decreed to happen, the good and the bad. All things, good and bad, are created by God, then God showed man both routes, good and bad, and then it is up to man to choose which route to follow. This meaning is confirmed in the following verse:

91:7-8

"The soul and Him who created it. Then showed it what is evil and what is good."

Therefore, since God is the creator of all things, it is right to say that "Everything comes from GOD".

Now we move on to the third verse quoted by the author:

4:79

"Anything good that happens to you is from GOD, and anything bad that befalls you is from you. We have sent you as a messenger to the people, and GOD suffices as witness."

Notice that the verse said (Anything good that happens to you) and not (anything good that you do). This confirms that all blessings that come our way are given to us by God. Examples of that would be good health, wealth, happy family, healthy children ......etc.

On the other hand, all sins we incur are a result of our own doing. God does not force us to commit sin nor does He push us into sin. On the contrary God warns us from all evil. Therefore anything bad that we do is a result of our own free choice. Examples of that are murder, rape, burglery, wars ......etc

To summerize:

1- God is the creator of all things, good and bad, therefore "Everything comes from GOD" 4:78

2- Then God shows man the good and warns him from evil "The soul and Him who created it. Then showed it what is evil and what is good." 91:7-8

3- The devil invites man to commit evil, man has the free will to choose the good or the bad:

The devil will say: " I had no power over you; I simply invited you, and you accepted my invitation." 14:22

4- All blessings that are given to us are given to us by God:

"Anything good that happens to you is from GOD" 4:79

5- All sins we incur are a result of our free choice:

"anything bad that befalls you is from you" 4:79

And the devil will say:

"Therefore, do not blame me, and blame only yourselves" 14:22

[Amin]

Your uncertainty on this ''contradiction'' is enouph prove for me.

What about the rest?

How is that enough? Are you kidding?! He's a new convert! He's at the beginning of his road of understanding Islam.

It's better that he's uncertain now, then to claim something which might not be true.

[Amin]

Really? So Abraham and Moses were NON JEWS Of different ethnic stock that is? Other than Jewish stock???And if they were NOT the first believers,then why it is stated so in Qu'ran?

You are contradicting yourself now. Your explanation is flawed,try again

Your understanding is flawd, I'm afraid. Abraham(a.s) was Hanif (which means he served one God and he existed before Moses(a.s.) and Jesus(a.s) so he could not be Jew or Christian.
If Moses(a.s.)came to his own people, he was Jew by ethnicity,isn't that true? But according to his teachings he was a Muslim (which means again SUBMITTED TO ONE GOD). He did not preach holy trinity.

[Amin]

And i will answer his questions about the contradictions in the bible too,which ,in difference with him, i AKNOWLEDGE they exist. But not in everyone of those he posted

This is all I need to know. You acknowledge that there are errors in the Bible. This is enough explanation for me, cause this proves it's not completely God's word but partly man made.

You don't have to explain now those contradictions, no point anymore.

My duty however is to prove you wrong. Since Islam is perfect.:D You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.:P

[WisdomSeeker]

Hehe Amin,you have written 3 conseguetive posts,without waiting me commenting them.

Well,lets begin with your ''explanation'' of the unexplained,;)


4:78
Say: "All things are from Allah."

4:79
Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah;
but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thyself.

4:82
Do they not ponder on the Qur'an?
Had it been from other than Allah,
they would surely have found therein much discrepancy.


is this translation correct? Or will you refute it again by saying it comes from a misunderstanding of the Qu'ran?

well,if this is correct,here it is what ive found:

Evil things are without doubt a subset of "all things", and if "all things are from Allah" then the evil things are from Allah as well, and the author of the Qur'an can't pass the guilt on and blame others as done in verse 79.

It is interesting that Muhammad would contradict himself within two consecutive verses and then write three verses later that discrepancy is a sign that it is not from God.


those 2 verses contradict each other,and contradict the third one (about Job)as well.,which you have so easily refuted. you cant refute just one,you must refute all 3 of them,and tell us finally which source is the source of evil,so we can understand.Because it is confusing:?



Your understanding is flawd, I'm afraid. Abraham(a.s) was Hanif (which means he served one God and he existed before Moses(a.s.) and Jesus(a.s) so he could not be Jew or Christian.
If Moses(a.s.)came to his own people, he was Jew by ethnicity,isn't that true? But according to his teachings he was a Muslim (which means again SUBMITTED TO ONE GOD). He did not preach holy trinity.

You are not talking to a muslim here Amin. Callin Abraham a muslim,many hundreds of years before islam saw the surface of this earth may work with Jovan but not with me. He was a Jew and and he didnt believe in Allah,he believed in the god of Jews, (Jehova). You can call him whatever you like when you find yourself among muslim brothers of yours,but you cant use this argument against a non muslim im afraid.

Moses is an even stronger case against him being muslim,as you claim him,because of the 10 commandments. But anyway, lets focus on the verses.

You are right. Muhammed is the first muslim ,as you have said.


Say, verily my Lord hath directed me into a right way, a true religion, the sect of Abraham the orthodox; and he was no idolater. Say, verily my prayers, and my worship, and my life, and my death are dedicated unto God, the Lord of all creatures: He hath no companion. This have I been commanded: I am the first Moslem (Wa 'Ana 'Awwalu Al-Muslimin). S. 6:161-163 Sale


He hath no associate. This am I commanded, and I am the first of the Muslims. S. 6:163 Rodwell


Say (O Muhammad): Lo! I am commanded to worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). And I am commanded to be the first of those who are muslims (surrender unto Him). S. 39:11-12 Pickthall

This is contradicted by both the Quran and various Islamic traditions which refer to the presence of true believers both before and during Muhammad’s alleged "call" to prophethood. The Quran mentions that Adam, Noah, the Patriarchs, the twelve tribes of Israel, Moses, Jesus etc., were all believers and many of them even messengers who lived a long time before Muhammad:


Too convenient naming all those people as believers (=muslims) long before Muhammad lived,and spread his religion eh? I guess that makes Islam the only monotheistic religion in the world,since the antiquity,and christianity and judaism never existed,since all those people (WHICH LIVED BEFORE Muhammad) were muslims and not christians or jews...

In fact, the Quran claims that all believers were essentially Muslims:


And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the cult of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular Prayer, give regular Charity, and hold fast to Allah! He is your Protector - the Best to protect and the Best to help! S. 22:78

Would that not qualify them as being Muslims and believers even before Muhammad? Certainly, this would make Adam the first believer, the first Muslim, wouldn’t it?

talking about flawed arguments....:roll:

And no christian claims Abraham or Moses to be a christian,as muslims do Amin. ;)



My duty however is to prove you wrong. Since Islam is perfect. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it.


You are far from cornering me im afraid. You have much work to do about refuting those verses,as i have said you have not commented yet on many ive posted.


And those,i assure you,do not come from any ''anti-islamic site'',the translation comes from an islamic institute of London;)

Btw, how old is the earth? how many days took Allah to create the universe? How many years is God's day?

Islam is far from perfect. Muslims prove it everyday.;)