National Minorities reform in Serbia

[Professor]

First laws which are a part of the Regionalisation Project are about to become valid. The minority National Councils shall be significantly reformed, in accordance to the law passed on 31 August 2009.

So far National Councils had existed as originally non-governmental organizations with partial recognition from the state, but from now on they shall be considered the sole legitimate representing body of a specific national minority in Serbia. Every national minority shall have elections every four years for a National Assembly that will elect the members of the specific National Council. The elections shall be fully democratic, sanctioned and observed by the Republic and will be considered fully legitimate. Government officials have begun enlisting members of national minorities across Serbia to issue and verify them voting rights for these rights. It is expected at least 800,000 people will come forth and apply as members of 19 specific minority ethnic group, which have a recognized minority status.

The following is a list of 16 (15+1 special org.) existing National Councils and the numbers of their members:

* Roma - 35

* Hungarian - 35

* Croatian - 35

* Bosniac - 35

* Slovak - 29

* Bulgarian - 21

* Romanian - 21

* Bunyev - 21

* Vlach - 21

* Macedonian - 21

* Ruthene - 18

* Greek - 18

* Ukrainian - 18

* German - 17

* Egyptian - 15

- The "Alliance of Jewish (religious) Municipalities of Serbia" is by special decree considered the Jewish National Council

The enlisting of members of national minorities on the territory on which the last population census was conducted (without Kosovo) will last for the following 120 days, when general minority national council elections will be held. Depending on the numeral strength of the specific ethnicity, their specific National Council shall number between 15 and 35 members, instead of the so far unstandardized number. The Ministries for minority and human rights of Serbia and Vojvodina and the local self-government shall finance the National Councils with an annual budget, depending on their numerality. The form of election shall also be autonomous and to be determined by the specific minority; members of minority groups will be able to vote both directly and from their home, using the new advanced electronic voting system.

The National Council of each minority shall take over from the country's jurisdiction over the following affairs in self-government territorial units with a majority of their group or their specific concern:

1. education

2. culture

3. informations

4. free usage of language and script

Each National Council is completely autonomous in its internal structure. NCs submit programs for educational institutions which are in minority languages, and makes amendments in programs for the general (Serbian) schools in areas of History, Music and Art. NCs will have the full right to found an education institution of any level, media house or any cultural institution, all of which shall be sanctioned by the State as official. The purpose of this liberal law is to grant and guarantee a full-level educational-religious-cultural autonomy for all minority ethnic groups in the Republic of Serbia. Each National miority Council shall also name 1 member of the National Education Council, the grand body that coordinates the work of the Ministry of Education.

Amongst the 4 new National Councils will be the Albanian National Council. This has grown to a considerable more interest and trust of the ethnic Albanian minority in the state, with their political parties ready to submit their candidates for the constitutional Albanian NC election. This will be of crucial importance for the Albanian national autonomy of the Preshevo, Bujanovac and Medvedja region, as there was no Albanian National Council whatsoever and no discussion of it prior to the most recent successful negotiations between the Albanian political representatives and the government's Coordination Team for the South of Serbia.

The other three ethic groups which will for the first time receive their National Councils in accordance to their petitions are the Slovenes, Czechs and Ashkalis. After the Minister's begging, the Yugoslavian national organizations have withdrawn their request for recognition of the Yugoslav national minority, so a Yugoslav National Council will not be formed after all, which many consider an end to the ex Yu mental absurdity.

[Balozi]

i dont see an albanian national council listed there?

[Professor]

i dont see an albanian national council listed there?

Lazy Balozi. :P At least use CTR-F if you don't feel like readin' the whole thing. :D

[Professor]

It's 21 May 2010 and the enlistment into the Special Electorate List is over, and so is the campaign of the Ministry for Human and Minority Rights of the Government of the Republic of Serbia and the leading minority political parties and non-governmental organizations to engage the citizens that feel themselves not belonging to the majority ethnic group to enlist.

More than 450,000 Serbian citizens have become registered voters and have received elective minority rights to vote in the direct elections for their national representatives.

[Novi Sad]

Serbia should grant equal rights to the minorities and some referendums should take place as well... :priere:

[erix77]

Give the poor things a break ,after all they have already lost a huge part of their territory.:Invisiq211:

[Professor]

Heh, even the Greeks are running.

http://izbori.ljudskaprava.gov.rs/sr/neposredniizbori/proglasene_izborne_liste.html

Two factions are competing among the Greeks:

1. I Love You - SaGaFp, Smederevo - Serbia (SaGaFp - Serbian-Greek Friendship) Peter Rodificis - Nadj

2. Hellenism with Serbdom - Vera Ephtimiades Iobst

[erix77]

Are those ethnic Greeks or just Serbs that love the Greek-Serbian brotherhood?

[WisdomSeeker]

Judging by their surnames,they seem greeks. I also took a look on the lists,they also contain serbs who married greeks residing there and taking greek surnames.

[erix77]

yes but are they living from a long time (more than 50 years at least)in Serbia or they have moved there recently?

[WisdomSeeker]

Both. Some are students as i saw,got married there during the 80's + perhaps. Others are far older to have decided suddenly to change country of residence (i saw some over 55+ years old within the lists). Possible children of communists leaving for Yugoslavia during/after the greek civil war,i would say.

[Professor]

There are Albanians, Greeks, Bulgarians and Romanians on this forum. Share on your favorites if there are any.

The election date is 6 June 2010.

[Novi Sad]

Serbia Prepares Elections for National Minority Councils

Belgrade | 04 June 2010 | Bojana Barlovac


As part of efforts to support and promote the rights of national minorities, much anticipated elections for national minority councils will be held in Serbia on Sunday.

Petar Antic, deputy minister of human and minority rights, told Balkan Insight that the law governing the councils and the elections represent the strengthening of tolerance within the society as well as the possibility for national minorities to preserve their identity.

"Through direct representatives [on the national council] they will be able to create their own policy in the field of education, culture, information in the languages of national minorities and official use of their language," he said. Each Council may establish educational and cultural institutions as well as media outlets.

Serbia’s Law on National Minority Councils was adopted in August 2009 in order to implement the minority self-government guaranteed by the Serbian Constitution. Each National Council will have between 15 and 35 members.

According to the results of the 2002 census, about 800,000 out of the 7.5 million people living in Serbia declared themselves as members of national minorities, and a total of 458,941 voters have registered to take part in Sunday's elections.

These groups include Albanians, Ashkalia, Bosniaks, Bulgarians, Bunjevci, Vlachs, Greeks, Egyptians, Hungarians, Germans, Roma, Romanians, Ruthenians, Slovaks, Ukrainians and Czechs.

Riza Halimi, the only ethnic Albanian MP in Serbia's parliament, stressed the importance of the upcoming elections.

"There are problems that have been cumulating for almost two decades and need to be solved, therefore getting our national minority council for the first time is extremely important for us," Halimi told Balkan Insight.

Some politicans have called the elections political and religious elections, arguing that the campaign turned into a fight between political parties over the exclusive rights to represent the minority groups.

The race being fought in the Sandzak area is one of the most intense, with Mufti Muamer Zukorlic pushing to be elected the leader of all Bosniaks. The situation is also tense in Vojvodina.

The president of the Social Democratic Party of Serbia, Rasim Ljajic, said that in the history of the Islamic community in Serbia religious leaders have never participated in civil elections. He is thus convinced that after the elections nothing will be the same in Sandzak.

"This election campaign has erased everything on which the Islamic community has been based in the most difficult times - the separation of religion from politics," Ljajic, who is also the Serbian minister of labour and social policy, told Srna news agency.

Ljajic said he was wondering how the imams, if elected to the National Council of Bosniaks, will talk with people afterwards -- as believers, as politicians, or as representatives of the National Council.

Balint Pastor from The Alliance of Vojvodina Hungarians, SVM, has said several times that the ruling Democratic Party, DS, is getting involved in the elections by backing 3 out of 5 partisan lists for the National Council of Hungarians.

Pastor told Balkan Insight that the election of representatives from such lists would affect the work of the councils.

"It may happen that the councils will not use all of the given possibilities and be under the control of the DS," he noted.

Speaking about southern Serbia, where some parties are boycotting the elections, Halimi told Balkan Insight that the election campaign could not have been carried out without the involvement of political parties. "There was no other way to do it," he added.

When asked to comment on this, Deputy Minister Antic stressed that the elections are not political or religous elections. "The National Councils have strictly defined competences," he said, but did not exclude the possibility of indirect influence on political and religous leaders during the election campaign.

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/28551/

[Professor]

The elections were a success, most members of minority ethnic groups have voted.

The largest turnout is noticed with the Greek national minority, whereas only a minority of the registered Ashkali eligible voters had voted, thereby making them the least active.

[Professor]

Our Albanians are likely to be interested in the results for the Albanian National Council.

The turnout is 56.31% and above the average one.

PARTIA PËR VEPRIM DEMOKRATIK RIZA HALIMI - Riza Halimi's Party for Democratic Action has marked a massive victory, winning 81.03% of the votes. UNIONI DEMOKRATIK SHQIPTAR-RAHMI ZULFIU - Rahmi Zulfiu's Democratic Union of Albanians won just 18.97%.

Of the 29 seats, 24 will go to the PpVD, and the remaining 5 to the UDSh. As this is a clear victory, no negotiations will be held, and it will be up to the uds to accept the prior's decisions or not. UDS has called for a national coalition.

This also shows good results, because the governmental party won so greatly, and the opposition (which gambled mostly on Albanian nationalism) fared incredibly poorly.

Riza Halimi has been overly critic of the Albanian minority political parties that refused to register, which will not be able to function legally. He is also overly critic of the calls for boycott of these elections.

[erix77]

what is the practical gain from this councils,do they get any jobs for their supporters?

[Professor]

what is the practical gain from this councils,do they get any jobs for their supporters?

Supporters?

[erix77]

the supporters of the political parties that won this council election.
What i mean is do the winners get any economical profit from being in the council or just the morale right to represent their minority?

[Professor]

the supporters of the political parties that won this council election.
What i mean is do the winners get any economical profit from being in the council or just the morale right to represent their minority?

National Councils receive annual budgets of their own, which they receive from the government.

The Montenegrin "Crusader" Society expresses regret that no Montenegrin National Council has yet been formed.

[Professor]

Our Albanians are likely to be interested in the results for the Albanian National Council.

The turnout is 56.31% and above the average one.

PARTIA PËR VEPRIM DEMOKRATIK RIZA HALIMI - Riza Halimi's Party for Democratic Action has marked a massive victory, winning 81.03% of the votes. UNIONI DEMOKRATIK SHQIPTAR-RAHMI ZULFIU - Rahmi Zulfiu's Democratic Union of Albanians won just 18.97%.

Of the 29 seats, 24 will go to the PpVD, and the remaining 5 to the UDSh. As this is a clear victory, no negotiations will be held, and it will be up to the uds to accept the prior's decisions or not. UDS has called for a national coalition.

The turnout of the greatest ethnic minority, the Hungarians, is 55.46%.

* The Hungarian Concord - Magyar Összefogás has won an astonishing victory in the election, winning 77.21% of the votes and 28 out of 35 seats in the Hungarian National Council. It is the official list of the leading Hungarian minority political coalition, under the flag of the Alliance of Vojvodinian Magyars. This means that the MK will keep the Magyars' council firmly under their control, although they kept in the election their idea of Hungarian autonomy, they no longer request the HRA but are open to consider other options for the preservation of and the rights of the Hungarian minority

* The second in line by votes is Vojvodinian Hungarians for a Europe Dr Chengeri Attila - Vajdasági Magyarként Európába Dr Csengeri Attila - a list formed by Belgrade, or in precise the Serbian president Boris Tadic and his Democratic Party. Winning 13.34% votes, they'll get 4 seats.

* The third place is taken by the "Here's a Hand for the Hungarian Community - Civic Movement - Zoltan Bunjik and Laslo Ratz-Sabo" - a civic list of a group of individual intellectuals who stood for a depoliticized election. With 3.37% votes, they get 1 seat; it has got to be noted that this "The Hungarian Handful" is, however, closely related to the DS and LSV.

* The list of the Vojvodinian Autonomists (led by the League of Social Democrats of Vojvodina) - "The Hungarian League - Magyar Liga - Dr Murenji Tibor" won 3.31% votes meaning the Autonomists will likewise, have 1 seat in the Hungarian National Council

* The list that got the least votes is the one of the "Movement of Hungarian Hope of Laslo Balint - Magyar Remény Mozgalom László Bálint", a group of ethnic Magyar ultra-nationalists deemed to be an initiative of Hungarian neo-nazis and revisionists - supporters of a Greater Hungary; with 2.77% of votes, they too will have 1 seat

These election results are absolutely great. The Hungarians have said a clear "no" to the far right, they've given full support to the right options. The Democrats are very satisfied with their results, and the Autonomists should be too, since they have presence. Together that's 20.02% votes of the Serbian pro-European faction, or 6/35 seats, when their Hungarian provincial allies are added. In total the government got 97.23% of votes and 34 out of 35 seats. The Hungarian Concord will begin negotiations with all the other groups and this is likely to be the majority, with that 1 far right representative in the opposition.

[Professor]

The turnout amongst the Bosniacs, the second biggest ethnic minority, is 56.46%.

* These are the most interesting of all, because none of the three electoral lists has managed to achieve a majority. The second reason why they are interesting is because the Islamic Community in Serbia, headed by their religious leader, ran on the elections. He is overly critic of Serbia accusing it for acting like a Christian nation and discriminating the Muslims, especially calling the ethnic Bosniaks for national unity. Playing on the both religious and national card, the Bosniak Cultural Community - BKZ - Mufti Muamer ef. Zukorlic won an astonishing 48.4%, or 17 seats out of a total of 35 - just a single seat short of a majority

* The second in place is the main Bosniac political coalition, the Bosniac List (led by Sulayman Ugljanin's coalition), which, expecting to win the election, can pretty much be disappointed that it had won 37.35% or just 13 seats

* The last is a pro-Belgrade one, sponsored by Rassim Ljajic - the Bosniac Revival with 14.25% or 5 seats.

This is especially difficult, since it isn't easy to get a hold of a majority which two of these three factions will form, which means that a long stage of negotiations is ahead - however, it is pointed out that the "pro-government" forces won the election with their 51.6% and 18 seats. It has to be seen if they'll form the coalition, which might aggravate that volatile mufti, as a "national coalition" is simply out of the question. Some interpret the results as a defeat of the idea of an autonomous Sanjak - for which the Islamic Community and its allies stood for in the election campaign.

[Professor]

The Romani minority's turnout is 54.95%.

* Most votes went to the Roma for a European Serbia - 44.9%, and with 18 out of 35 seats, they'll control the Roma National Council. The list is created by factions closely aligned to Boris Tadic

* The Second place went to the Alliance of Societies of Romas of the Pcinja-Jablanica District - "New Romani Movement" - graduated lawyer Nenad Tairovic - 15.06% and 6 seats. It is a regional list created by members closely tied to the Serbian Radical Party (the Democratic Left of the Roma)

* The Vojvodinian Autonomists - Vojvodinian Romani List - Petar Nikolic - will be represented with 5 members in the Roma National Council, winning 13.67%

* a non-aligned civic group "Romas of Serbia - Dragisa Todorovic" - won 8.77% and 3 seats; they stand for the fulfillment of constitutionally-guaranteed rights of the Roma national minority

* a small minority Moslem political party, Roma Party - Srdjan Shain - won 7.03% and will those get 2 seats

* The Romani Voice FOR Europe won 3.89% and will thus get 1 seat (a separate fraction of the list that got the majority of votes)

It is expected that the second most numerous list forms the opposition, while the remainder the majority. The remaining four Roma electoral lists failed to get enough votes to pass the electoral threshold - the International Roma Union's branch for Serbia (Novica Mitic) ran on the election and won just 2.16%, a neutral list called "United Romani - Misa Stojkov - Milan Nikolic" with its 2.09%, a Roma List for Central Serbia of Nikolic Bozidar put up by the 'CentralSerbians' with its 1.57% and the Romas of Serbia - Memisevic - Milanovic with just 0.87%.

[Professor]

The turnout amongst the Bosniacs, the second biggest ethnic minority, is 56.46%.

* These are the most interesting of all, because none of the three electoral lists has managed to achieve a majority. The second reason why they are interesting is because the Islamic Community in Serbia, headed by their religious leader, ran on the elections. He is overly critic of Serbia accusing it for acting like a Christian nation and discriminating the Muslims, especially calling the ethnic Bosniaks for national unity. Playing on the both religious and national card, the Bosniak Cultural Community - BKZ - Mufti Muamer ef. Zukorlic won an astonishing 48.4%, or 17 seats out of a total of 35 - just a single seat short of a majority

* The second in place is the main Bosniac political coalition, the Bosniac List (led by Sulayman Ugljanin's coalition), which, expecting to win the election, can pretty much be disappointed that it had won 37.35% or just 13 seats

* The last is a pro-Belgrade one, sponsored by Rassim Ljajic - the Bosniac Revival with 14.25% or 5 seats.

Major problems have escalated with the Bosniac National Council.

The BKZ has made a coalition with two members of the Bosniac Revival and have formed a simple 19/35 seat majority, instead of a two-third one. Accusations are that the 2 MPs of the Bosniac Revival have been bribed by the mufti and it remains to be seen whether this Bosniac National Council, boycotted by the Bosniac List and 3 members of the Bosniac Revival, will be recognized.

Members of the Bosniac List have called for new elections, in which they attempt to present the mufti as a fraud that bribes people.

This does not look well at all. O.o It could lead to further disasters and further destabilization and escalations of conflict in Sanjak (which in turn hurts when it spreads like domino elsewhere, e.g. directly at Kosovo).

[Balozi]

how can you make a coalition with just 2 members of another party?!

[erix77]

like prof said you buy them

[Balozi]

no i mean is that even allowed?

[erix77]

yes it is,you get elected as a member of a party but you can make your own decisions and you are not obliged to follow the decisions of that party,at least it is like this for every democratic elected parliament in the world.In the end one decides himself how to vote,if you remember such was the case of the election of our president Bamir Topi when some SP MP's voted for him against the decisions of the Party,later i think they were expelled from SP.It is not a fair thing to do but it is legal and no one can do anything to stop it.

[Professor]

yes it is,you get elected as a member of a party but you can make your own decisions and you are not obliged to follow the decisions of that party,at least it is like this for every democratic elected parliament in the world.In the end one decides himself how to vote,if you remember such was the case of the election of our president Bamir Topi when some SP MP's voted for him against the decisions of the Party,later i think they were expelled from SP.It is not a fair thing to do but it is legal and no one can do anything to stop it.

Yes. Such is an example at those elections in Montenegro; in the Serb municipality - Andrijevica - it seemed that the ruling coalition had won and that the unified opposition had lost (no one believed it possible); however, the 1 SDP representative had broken off the coalition with the DPS and formed locally majority with the unified opposition and became Assembly Speaker. He got evicted from SDP CG.

[Professor]

Major problems have escalated with the Bosniac National Council.

The BKZ has made a coalition with two members of the Bosniac Revival and have formed a simple 19/35 seat majority, instead of a two-third one. Accusations are that the 2 MPs of the Bosniac Revival have been bribed by the mufti and it remains to be seen whether this Bosniac National Council, boycotted by the Bosniac List and 3 members of the Bosniac Revival, will be recognized.

Members of the Bosniac List have called for new elections, in which they attempt to present the mufti as a fraud that bribes people.

This does not look well at all. O.o It could lead to further disasters and further destabilization and escalations of conflict in Sanjak (which in turn hurts when it spreads like domino elsewhere, e.g. directly at Kosovo).

This is getting worse and worse. The Ministry for Human and Minority Rights has decided to schedule new elections, in which the Bosniac List and Bosniac Revival will participate again; the Serbian government will not recognize this Bosniak National Council, declaring it illegal.

The mufti can only capitalize from this by making nationalist statements, e.g. accusing Serbia for mistreatment of Bosniacs by this. He has accused Rassim Ljajic and Sulayman Ugljanin and has demanded their resignations, as well as the resignation of the minority rights minister Svetozar Ciplic. The BKZ claims dialogue with the Serbian government is possible only after their resignations.

The 2 MPs that have "switched" claim that they had not signed blanco statements and that they do not care what Ljajic says.

In the wake of announcements of reorganizing the elections, the current unrecognized BNV has issued a statement "We already have our National Council, we don't care."

What is going to follow after this? The mufti Zukorlic obviously is a bit demagogic and strives for the position once held by Ugljanin, as the undisputed leader of the Slavic Moslem people of Sanjak.

[erix77]

Haha so much for the democratic minority councils in Serbia,sounds like i was right when i said that the government had influenced those elections winning every council there was.Now that they lost this one they declare it illegal.This does not look good for democracy.

[Professor]

Haha so much for the democratic minority councils in Serbia,sounds like i was right when i said that the government had influenced those elections winning every council there was.Now that they lost this one they declare it illegal.This does not look good for democracy.

Ljajic and especially Ugljanin have got a lot of influence in decision-making about Sanjak - actually, they hold all the chains. They cannot allow mufti Zukorlic to take over the national council from their hands, especially since he is bringing up the fire in Sanjak as a local demagogue (that is his idea, which ended in failure when he was angry that his list didn't manage to win the election) of the Bosniac people.

The decision to form a supermajority (two-third) is precisely there, because of the necessity to find pacification amongst the divided groups in order to get an as bigger consensus as possible. The problem is evident in the strongly divided Sanjak, where Bosniaks/Slavic Muslims kill each other during these conflicts. It is also good because while you can eventually bribe 1 or 2 members, you can't really bribe up half the parliament.

The majority formed (allegedly through bribery, but no one can never tell this) was not according to the statute, and thus is illegal, lacking recognition from the Ministry for Human and Minority Rights.

I see two possibilities:

1. Zukorlic becomes the next mass leader of the Bosniac people of Sanjak, a demagogue of the type of Milo Djukanovic in neighboring Montenegro or Milorad Dodik in the nearby Republic of Srpska.

2. A legal Bosniac National Council is formed and the division of Sanjak further deepens, having even two national councils - a legal one, and an illegal one, which maintains parallel minority institutions through self-financing; then I imagine negotiations, "de facto" recognition of the illegal one by Serbia in effort to ease down things and the divisions further deepen on...

[erix77]

The best thing to do is to let this council decide by themselves what to do,if this mufty is a demagogue he will fail his own people and in the next elections he will loose consensus.
Try to boot him and you will create a hero out of him.

[Professor]

The best thing to do is to let this council decide by themselves what to do,if this mufty is a demagogue he will fail his own people and in the next elections he will loose consensus.
Try to boot him and you will create a hero out of him.

Exactly. However, the principle according to the National Council's Statute is two thirds. They've instead gotten a simple majority and there is the problem. It is likely Ciplic would move for negotiations to recognize the national council even if it broke the rules, but there is too much pressure from Ljajic, who will not see anything of it. He is especially furious that 2 of his 5 members (!) have been, as he says, bribed.

And no, when there is nothing in the path of demagogues, they just keep growing and in power. An example in the region is Milo Djukanovic in Montenegro. Srpska's Milorad Dodik is a more modern example; there was no one in Bosnia and Herzegovina to intervene and be smarter before. There are examples of strong demagogues losing power through democratic means as people simply lost belief in them in complete, after full trust, like Vojislav Kostunica in Serbia, but when they become so deeply rooted-in, they're in there forever. And that has nothing to do with the current situation altogether in the nation, look at the EU/NATO Italy and its Prime Minister.

Zukorlic is attempting in Sanjak that which Harris Silajdzic attempts in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Silajdzic doesn't seem to be very successful, but the main difference is that this is a National Council and that this isn't about politics. The mufti is there forever (the only one who can sack him is the dude in Sarajevo) and he just wants to prove that to everyone. As a spiritual leader, he strives to be a national altogether, and as a head of an Islamic Community, he is also immune to this political bickering. People believe in him by default as in a religious leader, and he especially wants to deal a blow to the other Islamic Community (the rival one), especially since his rival is a member of the Inter-Religious Council of the Ministry of Faiths of Serbia, while he himself is not.

[erix77]

well one can look this from every point of view but to delete the council and create another one in its place would be the worst thing to do.Give him time to make his mistakes and you will see that he will not be so popular after a while.I don't know the situation in Sandjak but for sure the people there are smart enough to see when someone fails their trust.

[Professor]

well one can look this from every point of view but to delete the council and create another one in its place would be the worst thing to do.Give him time to make his mistakes and you will see that he will not be so popular after a while.I don't know the situation in Sandjak but for sure the people there are smart enough to see when someone fails their trust.

Sanjak is one of the most underdevelopped regions of Serbia. Regions as such attract such people and are prone to giving sway to bloodthirsty tyrants and wordplay demagogues. The situation in Kosovo with conservative politicians is nothing ethnic and is common for both Serbs and Albanians, as well as others, and is due to the whole black situation Kossovo is in. When you go around and visit the undereducated villagers of half-abandoned villages of southeastern Serbia, you can freely hear how they are for the Radicals by default and not wonder the whole situation.

No one talks of "deletion"; the self-styled Bosniac National Council just hasn't received recognition from the Ministry for Human and Minority Rights. As far as the Republic of Serbia and one part of the Bosniac people and their leaders, the Bosniak National Council is yet to be formed. The fact that 19 out of 35 electees have gathered in the Town Hall of Novi Pazar, with the rest boycotting, and proclaimed themselves the National Council, does not change the reality that they did something which isn't allowed.

Frankly, everything would've been much easier if the ministry was divided into human and minority rights as separate ministries. The Hungarians were supposed to get the minority rights minister, but they agreed on making it a single ministry, both because DS would be made virtually weak in the government (supposed leading political party of Serbia) and there already are far too many ministries.

Even if minister Svetozar Ciplic wanted to approach Zukorlic (he has nothing personal against him; when all of Serbia was attacking the "monstrous mufti" for becoming a political-religious leader and a demagogue, Ciplic is the first one who had defended his legitimate right to run for the election and has also pointed out that it's actually not unordinary for the national councils, naming the Roman Catholic bishops who lead the lists of some other national minorities), his colleagues in the Serbian government (which is against Zukorlic) would simply not let him and he would be under pressure from the other ministries, as well as the Democratic Party, which had supported/named him for that position in the first place.

[erix77]

When you go around and visit the undereducated villagers of half-abandoned villages of southeastern Serbia, you can freely hear how they are for the Radicals by default and not wonder the whole situation.i know well what you are talking here we have those kind of voters also in Albania,no matter what goes on they vote for the same party always,but here you are depicting this mufty like he is the devil himself,i mean how dangerous can he be when he has the opportunity to act in a legal way,he is a human and power will corrupt him also,on the other hand deny his majority make him an enemy of the government and than Serbia will have their own Bin Laden.If Ljajic can't hold his troops together it is his fault and not the fault of the entire community.

[Professor]

i know well what you are talking here we have those kind of voters also in Albania,no matter what goes on they vote for the same party always,but here you are depicting this mufty like he is the devil himself,i mean how dangerous can he be when he has the opportunity to act in a legal way,he is a human and power will corrupt him also,on the other hand deny his majority make him an enemy of the government and than Serbia will have their own Bin Laden.If Ljajic can't hold his troops together it is his fault and not the fault of the entire community.

He is not the devil, but he is an extremely nationalist fanatic. He goes regularly to Turkey, which he has called "God's Emissary in Europe" and follows every single recommendation as if a direct order. Everyone knows that he is tied to the mujahideens who commit occasionally terrorist attacks in Sanjak, Bosnia and the US. Muamer Zukorlic calls for constant resistance against Serbia, mentioning once even the word "jihad", considers Montenegro "castraters of Islam" (for declaring independence in 2006). He considers the Slavic Muslims of Sanjak that do not support him "defects from Allah".

There is a total of 5 mosques that were burned to the ground by Zukorlic's men (the others, from the Other side at least have never destroyed mosques).

And look at the greatest irony: both Ljajic and Ugljanin are of direct ethnic Albanian origin (slavicized Albanian converts), while Zukorlic descends from the Montenegrins/Serbs (although with considerable Albanian blood, coming from the amalgam mixed area).

What Serbia fears, I believe, is that Zukorlic is working for money (and he is being payed by the head in Sarajevo, truthfully, to whom he is subjected hierarchically) and that he is on a mission to keep creating a mess in Sanjak. On the other hand, the Bosniacs mostly believe Zukorlic is Serbia's agent in the mission to "divide and conquer".

Majority? But, what if he got that majority in a dirty way (bribery of elected representatives)? He didn't WIN the election.

[erix77]

Majority? But, what if he got that majority in a dirty way (bribery of elected representatives)? He didn't WIN the election. that is part of democracy,everywhere there have been and will be people that switch sides,now i don't try to defend the guy here as i don't know him at all,but if he has ordered crimes he can be persecuted by the law,if not he has the right to be elected and make his alliances even in unorthodox ways.This kind of people can be really dangerous when you bring too much publicity on them,while they can not cause real trouble when you involve them in the democratic system of a country.

[Professor]

that is part of democracy,everywhere there have been and will be people that switch sides,now i don't try to defend the guy here as i don't know him at all,but if he has ordered crimes he can be persecuted by the law,if not he has the right to be elected and make his alliances even in unorthodox ways.This kind of people can be really dangerous when you bring too much publicity on them,while they can not cause real trouble when you involve them in the democratic system of a country.

Nothing can be pinned directly on him; he gave no "order", his nationalist and fanatical speeches may just be publicly interpreted as such. He can be prosecuted perhaps like Seselj, for hate speech.

Indeed. The media report on Zukorlic on an everyday basis and he gets a lot of time himself in the press.

However, Ljajic is dead furious, and Ugljanin counts on the possibility that in a repeat election, Zukorlic's list will win far less votes, precisely because of this dirty practice. In another possibility, he gets 4 years of time in full control, with the Bosniak political leaders having no influence on their own national council for that time, and the alleged bribery could even wane in time.

[erix77]

with the Bosniak political leaders having no influence well looks like they already have lost part of their influence and if they force new elections they can loose even more,what is interesting to see is if Belgrade will risk their credibility with new elections only to appease their Bosnian government allies.

[Professor]

well looks like they already have lost part of their influence and if they force new elections they can loose even more,what is interesting to see is if Belgrade will risk their credibility with new elections only to appease their Bosnian government allies.

And what if Zukorlic's "community" boycotts the repeat elections?

[erix77]

That is really bad for democracy i hope the government don't count on the boycott to win the elections there,i mean if you are trying to build a democratic state you must always try to solve the problems discussing with the other side no matter how distant their view are.The council would not be working normally if a big part of the Bosniaks boycott it.Unless there have been huge irregularities in the voting process they should not call for new elections just because some guys switched sides,it is not normal like i said before they risk to destroy the relationship of the Bosniaks with Belgrade.I hope Belgrade does not want a new Kosovo in Sandjiak.

[Professor]

That is really bad for democracy i hope the government don't count on the boycott to win the elections there,i mean if you are trying to build a democratic state you must always try to solve the problems discussing with the other side no matter how distant their view are.The council would not be working normally if a big part of the Bosniaks boycott it.Unless there have been huge irregularities in the voting process they should not call for new elections just because some guys switched sides,it is not normal like i said before they risk to destroy the relationship of the Bosniaks with Belgrade.I hope Belgrade does not want a new Kosovo in Sandjiak.

The problem in Sanjak is not ethnic, it's inter-ethnic, inter-religious. There are two opposing Islamic Communities, there is a strong political division with two strongly different political leaders. Zukorlic's demagogic attempt, which is identical to the path taken by Ugljanin during the 1990s, is only worsening the situation up. The Muslims in Sanjak attack, beat and kill each other, they burn down mosques, knowing precisely "which side" they are aligned to. There is so much anger in there, although Zukorlic seems to be wanting to unite the Slavic Muslims of Sanjak and in that course recourse this hate and energy at Serbia, which he perceives as the common foe that has only the gain from this division.

Additionally, mufti Muamer Zukorlic has with a few thousands Bosniaks in Novi Pazar (including representatives from Bosnia and Herzegovina) held a massive "All-Bosniak Assembly of Sanjak" in which he has held a ferocious speech, about opening the question of the status of Sanjak and called for the end of mistreatment of Bosniacs, when compared to all other national minorities in Serbia. He has called the Bosniacs a "constitutive people of Serbia" with full rights as every other, implying also that Sanjak has right of secession from Serbia. Zukorlic's "All-Bosniac Council" as he has called the gathering, has reestablished the "National Committee for Sanjak", a self-styled body that governed over the region of Sanjak during the early 1990s under Ugljanin, when it was aiming at secession.

Ugljanin has dismissed Zukorlic as a "deranged fanatic", while Ljajic has noted that Zukorlic's practices are making the country look more like Arabia than like Europe and that his actions are damaging his own people. Minister Ciplic has denounced Zukorlic, noting that Bosniacs are not a special-status constitutive people of the Republic of Serbia and that completely the same rules have been applied to 17 other national minorities in Serbia, none of which had any problems constituting a two-third supermajority.

[erix77]

Is he for real asking for secession or just trying to get some more votes and does he have a real political party or just a movement for taking part in the national council?

i found this from Zukorlic:“Bosnia is the oldest child of Turkey, the country which is perceived by all the Muslims in these parts, including Albania, as their mother country,”

Now prof you said he is a demagogue but i am asking has he ever been in Albania?That expression looks in line with some extremists in the orthodox church of Serbia that try to show the Albanians as Islamic fanatics.

[Professor]

Is he for real asking for secession

No.


or just trying to get some more votes

Hardly, the elections are over and while everyone said the rhetoric is electoral and temporary, it seems just as I thought - it's permanent. I know a guy that voted for BKZ, he said "he's just pretending, he's not nationalist like that at all, he just wants to attract votes". I'd like to ask him now. ;D


and does he have a real political party or just a movement for taking part in the national council?

No, there is no party. He wants to be an all-out leader (being a religious one already), a demagogue.


Now prof you said he is a demagogue but i am asking has he ever been in Albania?That expression looks in line with some extremists in the orthodox church of Serbia that try to show the Albanians as Islamic fanatics.

No, I don't think he has ever been to Albania (the only tie with Albania is the personal bodyguard that keeps him safe from possible assassination, among whom are people trained in Albania). Why do you ask?

[erix77]

because in Albania nobody calls Turkey our mother country.We have good relation with Turkey but we can not forget that easily 5 centuries of Turkish terror in Albania.

[Professor]

because in Albania nobody calls Turkey our mother country.We have good relation with Turkey but we can not forget that easily 5 centuries of Turkish terror in Albania.

That is how the Yugoslav Muslims observe Turkey, as their craddle. The Sanjak Muslims are mostly aligned with Turkey, and see it as their mother-state. Their leaders go to Ankara for advices and instructions. Why do you think President Tadic chose Turkey to be the mediator of the Sanjak problem solving, next to the EU of course?

Here is the Grand mufti of the Islamic Community in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Mustafa Ceric (to whom mufti Zukorlic is subjected), the leader of all of our Muslims:

r-gCPvGg3go

For them, the Ottoman reign of the Balkans is the Golden era of the history of Southeastern Europe, while all other historic time periods are considerably bad.

You forget that the central identity of this people is religious, similar to the Jews; Islam, despite many's (but not all, of course) intention to tie themselves to the Bosnian regions. They declared as Muslims by nationality.

[erix77]

Please Prof read better my post.

i don't really care how they see turkey ,mother or father is their choice i am not interested either in their religious views and their ties with other Muslim countries,what i don't understand is what gives him the right to speak for Albania and declare that we Albanians see Turkey as our mother country.


Why do you think President Tadic chose Turkey to be the mediator of the Sanjak problem solvingbecause of those gas and oil lines that will touch both countries.

[Professor]

Please Prof read better my post.

i don't really care how they see turkey ,mother or father is their choice i am not interested either in their religious views and their ties with other Muslim countries,what i don't understand is what gives him the right to speak for Albania and declare that we Albanians see Turkey as our mother country.

The ties are basically just with the Turkish Islamic community.


because of those gas and oil lines that will touch both countries.

No, but because of the Muslims themselves.

[erix77]

we don't have any Turkish Islamic community in Albania,sorry but i did not understood your answer.
He was talking about turkey as mother country of Albania and not for any religious community.That for me is just a lie,Turkey is not the Mother country of Albania and our country is not called Turkmenistan.


No, but because of the Muslims themselves. And you believe it?Nobody calls a foreign government in his country unless there is some economical profit to be made.

Doubt man Doubt anything they say to you.

[Professor]

we don't have any Turkish Islamic community in Albania,sorry but i did not understood your answer.

Of course you don't...because it's in Turkey. -.-


He was talking about turkey as mother country of Albania and not for any religious community.That for me is just a lie,Turkey is not the Mother country of Albania and our country is not called Turkmenistan.

Well, I know that, but why are you telling me this?


And you believe it?Nobody calls a foreign government in his country unless there is some economical profit to be made.

Doubt man Doubt anything they say to you.

When pressure arrives, countries often yield to pressure. No, there's absolutely no economic gain, just as there is no economic background the Community Treaty of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia and Turkey signed by Tadic a while ago in Ankara (when Turkey acted as a mediator between Bosnia and Serbia).

[erix77]

Well, I know that, but why are you telling me this? i thought you were justifying his quote,your post was not so clear to me.


No, there's absolutely no economic gainwait till you see the smoke of it.

[Invictus-NYC]

Hey I dont know if this will fit as i didnt really read all your posts but this article seems to fit a little i think let me know what you think.

the economist
Correspondent's diary, Day two: Albania and the Ottoman legacy
http://www.economist.com/blogs/easternapproaches

I LOVE coming to Tirana. Probably no other capital in Europe has changed as much in the last two decades as here. If you had not been for twenty or even ten years you would not recognise the place, except of course for its great central Skanderbeg square which says so much about Albanian history.

In one corner is its Ottoman-era mosque begun in 1789; other prominent buildings are ministries, the town hall and the national bank built in Italian fascist style and then the communist-era opera and national museum.

The side of the square is dominated by a huge equestrian statue of Skanderbeg himself. He is the unquestioned national hero of the Albanians, revered wherever they live. There are statues of him in Rome, in Skopje in Macedonia and of course in Pristina in Kosovo.

Yet the choice of Skanderbeg as a unifying figure is slightly odd. After all, the majority of Albanians are Muslims and Skanderbeg is a man famous for renouncing Islam for Christianity when he rebelled against the Ottomans in 1443 and then led Albanian armies into battle against them.

What Albanians always say however is, that “the religion of the Albanians is Albanianism.” This saying was originally coined by a nineteenth century Catholic poet called Vaso Pashko and later used by Enver Hoxha, Albania’s communist dictator. What it refers to is the fact that, in the Balkans, the Albanians are different. In essence the origin of modern nationhood amongst Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians and so on is Christian Orthodoxy. What made ones ancestor become a Croat however was being Catholic and Muslims in Bosnia became Bosniaks.

Albanians however can be Muslims (Sunni or Bektashi), Catholic or Orthodox.

Enver Hoxha famously (or notoriously) abolished religion in Albania and made the country the world’s first atheist state. Today Albanians are rather laid back about religion. Being fanatically pro-American also means that much of the Muslim world find Albanians weird and hard to fathom.

Certainly the fact that Kosovo, unlike Albania itself, is almost entirely Muslim has helped not one jot amongst Muslim countries in gaining recognitions since it declared independence in February 2008.

One of Kosovo’s main supporters however has been Muslim Turkey and, while that has been appreciated, Ankara’s new and assertive foreign policy in the western Balkans has been raising eyebrows. After a century of neglect Turkey wants everyone in this region to know it is back. First of all the Turks have been helping restore buildings and monuments from the Ottoman period, but they have also been helping erect new ones. In the last decade Turkish schools and universities have also been opening especially in Albania and Bosnia.

In the last year however it has been Turkey’s active foreign policy in the region that seems to be taking Turkey’s return to the Balkans to an altogether new level. In Bosnia Turkey has been very active in trying to reconcile Serbs and Bosniaks and Serbia’s leaders too are visiting Turkey with ever increasing frequency.

Last week Turkey's prime minister was in both Bosnia and Serbia. All this is part of what is often dubbed Turkey’s neo-Ottoman foreign policy in its former domains.

Rather quietly however some Balkan voices have begun to question what is in this for them, and indeed in the case of Piro Misha, a thoughtful Albanian publisher and commentator, to begin to speak out about the risks involved for Albanians. We meet for morning coffee on the cool terrace of a Tirana cafe and he points out that neo-Ottomanism is, as far as he is concerned, a danger for the Balkans.

Mr Misha points to a speech that Ahmet Davutoglu, Turkey’s foreign minister made in Sarajevo last October. Now, he said, the Balkans were on the periphery of Europe. But, during the “golden age” of Ottoman rule they were not; nor were they divided as now. So it was important to create “a new sense of unity in our region”. Of course that is fine, but the speech continues with mention of how for Muslims in the Balkans Turkey is a safe haven, how for Bosniaks in Sandzak in Serbia and Montenegro Turkey is their “centre” and how the aim of Turkish foreign policy is to make Turkey once again a centre of world politics for people in the Balkans, the Caucasus and the Middle East.

For non-Muslims in the Balkans, says Mr Misha, this is dangerous talk. Many people with family or folk memories of that era do not regard the Ottoman centuries as a golden age and neo-Ottomanism appears to introduce a religious element into foreign policy. Warming to his theme he says: “Albanian could fall to pieces if religion becomes a factor.” He also points out that in Mr Davutoglu’s Sarajevo speech the EU, which is what really interests people in the Balkans, is simply not mentioned.

This being the Balkans however that must mean that a conspiracy is afoot somewhere, and Misha Djurkovic, writing in the leading Serbian daily Politika thinks he knows what it is. Germany and France do not want Turkey in the EU, and after Croatia Germany does not want the western Balkans either. So he argues, the west, and the Americans especially, are seeking to compensate Turkey by ceding power and influence in the region to it, especially amongst its Muslims. “It is of the utmost importance for the Americans and the Europeans that moderate and still secular Turkey should become their leader and protector and not Iran, Indonesia or another even more radical country.”

In two years it will be 100 years since the Ottomans were expelled after their 500 year sojourn in the Balkans. Now says Mr Djurkovic some are asking whether this trend (if there is one of course,) should be resisted or “we should reorient ourselves and take as many advantages as possible in circumstances we cannot influence.” From Tirana to Sarajevo and Belgrade to Brussels I expect more and more people to be discussing what neo-Ottomanism means for the Balkans in the coming months and years.

[erix77]

the Turks can try to sell their new ottomanism to the bosniaks that are people with a religious identity but without a clear national identity and they need Turkey to act as a counter weight to the Serb orthodox pressure,but we Albanians don't want or need them to tell us what to do.Albania does not want to look to the East all we want is the West with a future in EU.

[Invictus-NYC]

I know that is actually also the first time that I heared about albania and turkey I mean we dont hate them but we dont love them ether. Although I think they are a good|natural strategic partner for us as well as Bosnia if it then gets its shit together to balance the forced greeko-albanian-serbian love triangle of which we are in the middle lol Meaning our relationship is based on interests we love them as they are useful to us and they do the same. However our cradle is in Kruja not somewhere in istanbul. I disagree with Erix on the notion that our only way is west and thats it. We are a small country so a flexible albanian foreign policy is better for us in my opinion. Anytime someone has something for sure he devalues it so the EU thinks they have albania on its hand ether way and this is a bad bargening position for us. Let them rather all fight for our love lol


Also you have to keep in mind that islam is not even safe in turkey I know it looks like it now becouse of Erdogan and his somewhat religues AK Parti but if they change which is bound to happan then you can say goodbuy to that union which is suposedly based on religion.


So I think Erix is right here while from the outside it might look like that this is more about money and politics not religion.

[erix77]

We are a small country so a flexible albanian foreign policy is better for us in my opinion.Yes but do we have the balls to play such a game?Plus all our adversaries accuse us on being Islamic leftovers so in my opinion me must say clearly that we are a western oriented country and that we are not attracted from the East.Which is also true and our Politicians are already doing it from 20 years.

[Professor]

the Turks can try to sell their new ottomanism to the bosniaks that are people with a religious identity but without a clear national identity and they need Turkey to act as a counter weight to the Serb orthodox pressure,but we Albanians don't want or need them to tell us what to do.Albania does not want to look to the East all we want is the West with a future in EU.

Tell me about it. I've been on a tour across Albania and Tirana looks just like any other European city. When I've been to Novi Pazar or Tuzla, I felt like I was not in Turkey, but in Arabia (no insult intended against the Bosniac people and their cultural-religious heritage).

[Professor]

Just to add, Serbia (Yugoslavia) had opened up in 2002 "The International University of Novi Pazar"; it had become church property of the Islamic Community in Serbia.

http://www.uninp.edu.rs/administracija/rektorat/predsjednik.php

Mutfi Muamer efendi Zukorlic is the "President of the University".

The guy probably wants to crown himself Emperor. :lol:

[Professor]

The governmental emissary for equality Nevena Petrusic has concluded in her analysis that the amendment to the Regulations of Conduct constitutes discrimination and the Ministry for Human and Minority Rights has obliged itself that it will be removed until 20 August 2010.

The Bosniacs greet the decision and hope that this is a step forward, towards the solution of their problems.

[Novi Sad]

Serbia does nothing for its minorities... :(

Examples:

1. Belgrade Train Station

Poor people are bartering junk to survive

http://www.travelblog.org/Photos/4429435

2. Growing Up in Belgrade

http://www.travelblog.org/Photos/4429436

[Balozi]

man unfortunately those pictures are common in all the balkans. on a side note though the gypsies just live like that